mark

LOL, what's the matter Richard, nervous?

Are you afraid that your moronic insults are directed at someone who
has actually succeeded on his own without the limp-wristed handholding
of the leftist welfare state pimps that you love so much?

If not, YOU SHOULD BE

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what Mike says about cars, but
I haven't see a reason to doubt his claims about his life experience.
You, on the other hand, have absolutely no credibility in my eyes or
anyone else's worth mentioning. You are a foul-mouthed, racist,
egotistical, small-minded leftist who thinks of little other than
pleasing himself and stomping on anyone who might stand in his way.

learning richard

do you feel stomped on? awww

gary l. burnore

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:07:34 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> top posted like an ignorant fucking moron


Seems that spelling would be a pre-req to an engineering degree.
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
================================================== =========================

gary l. burnore

Poor little fool. It's obvious you've not succeeded at much more than bullshit.

Threat? Heh.g
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
================================================== =========================

davidj92

I also know what I spoke was/is true and would testify to it under oath.

Dodge and GM have always offered discounts to fleets, especially to
government fleets and even more so to PD's.

The Taurus you refer to was


You may be correct on the certification, I can't argue on that. I can say it
definately was used as a front-line vehicle by the PD in my city. I woulnd't
swear to it, but I think I saw them used by the state I live in as well.

The only other Ford Certified Police vehicle was the

We used those in Indiana as well, I stand to be corrected but I believe all
have been replaced by Camaro's set up for high-speed use.

Indeed the CV is offered, through Ford dealers with a


I still state with no uncertanty that Ford subsidized the dealers bids to
government fleets to outbid GM and Chryco. That may not be the case now, I
can say that all the new vehicles purchased this year, in the two
departments I'm associated with, are Fords. Question there?

But Dodge and GM, when they built RWD police

Wrong, not true. We still are using and purchasing new GM Impalas on our
city PD. I talked to the Lead Mechanic in the department that does their
maitenance and he says the maintenance costs are not significantly higher
than RWD.
Since this is a Toyota NG I'll reference them. The FWD Toyotas don't cost
any more to maintain than a RWD and last just as long, so I think I'll
believe the Lead Mechanic.

Lastly, I've read farther in the thread on this and it has turned into a
personality contest, which I refuse to participate in, so I am finished with
this thread.
davidj92

davidj92

You obviously proved my point, can't debate on a technical level, so you
have to resort to personal attackes.
(Find any mispellings, find any incorrect punctuation, make you happy? WOW,
you are soooo smart.)
People like you have to try to make someone else look bad in a vain attempt
to make themselves look better.
This ng is for the passing of information and trying to assist someone in
need.
This is the last conversation I'll have with you.
davidj92

dizzy

"Mike" is a proven liar. I don't trust anything he says.

"Anyone worth mentioning" being right-wingers, I assume.

dh

Letting off the throttle on an RWD car may also induce a spin. My spouse
discovered this the hard way. Conditions were VERY slippery - ice.

This is also the case in a well-engineered RWD car. My automatic Volvos can
be pushed into neutral from D just by whacking the stick but to go into
reverse requires depressing the button on the top.

Some PDs in this area are using FWD cars. I presume they modify the
training to match and, perhaps, have changed the rules on when to chase and
how hard. Yes, it snows here.

I also noticed - surprise - a local PD with a Honda CR-V. No Toyotas, yet.
I wonder if the CR-V had a police package...

For once. Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day...

There are a lot of factors involved. In my experience, light vehicles, both
FWD and RWD, tend to do well.

Based on my experience, I prefer a well-balanced RWD car (preferably with
limited slip differential), like a Volvo. Really good all-weathers or,
better, snows. ABS is a plus. All my RWD vehicles have done well enough
in the snow. However, two of my light FWD vehicles have done well in the
snow. My heavy FWDs suck. To put it mildly. My very lightest FWD vehicle
was very poor in the wnos (but that could be a tire issue). Overall, in
snow, my RWD experince has been bettter than my FWD experience.

In my opinion, RWD gives you more options for dealing with conditions. Add
gas for oversteer, let off the gas or downshift for weight transfer and
extra bite on the front tires and reduce understeer while getting some
braking.

FWD isn't as flexible. Add gas and you induce understeer. Let off the gas
or downshift and you induce understeer. In really poor conditions, braking
is more difficult, as even idle throttle torque differences can throw off
the front-end. I often put the FWD cars into N when hitting the brakes to
improve braking. That's useful on the RWD vehicles, too, but not necessary
nearly as often.

Fishtailing, especially going uphill, is certainly possible in a RWD car
but, under the same conditions, FWD torque steer and wheelspin leading to
loss of steering traction will push you towards the ditch or oncoming
traffic. I've instructed the kids NOT to use the cruise control on the FWDs
when it's snowing for just this reason.

AWD or 4WD? No, thanks. It would probably be a help but I'm more concerned
about stopping than going and, while AWD might help you a few times per
year, you pay an MPG penalty all year long. ABS seems to be worth the
price, though. If it snows hard enough, I simply try to stay home. If I
get stuck (hasn't happened in over 20 years), that's what AAA is for.

ed white

I mostly agee that FWD is better in the snow that RWD, However, I grew
up before the FWD era and people got around well enough. I grew up on a
farm. My Father never had anything but 2WD pick-ups without limit slip.
He never got stuck. In my area, mud was the problem more often than
snow. I can remember watching my Father drive down the path literally
leaving three tracks - one of which was created by the differential
housing. Personally I drove all over Michigan in the winter in a RWD
Datsun. I never got stuck, or even came close to getting stuck. I once
drove 100 miles in the snow in a RWD Jensen Healey in snow so deep it
was scrapping against the floor pans. The last time I couldn't go where
I wanted in the snow I was driving a FWD car. There was hill out of the
subdivision, and the road was so slick I just couldn't get enough
traction to get up the hill. I probably could have made it if I had
been willing to chance a high speed running start, but then I doubt I
could have stopped on the other end - which was a tee intersection into
a major street. Generally my problem when driving in the snow involves
stopping, not moving, and FWD is not much of a help when you are
stopping.

Ed

davidj92

snip

My father used to tell a story about his father having a Model T pickup when
they lived on a farm. I think the story went that it was muddy and soon the
T was stuck. Granddad told Dad and Uncle Johnny to get the mule out of the
barn, which they did in a hurry as kids did back then. :- D
Hooked mule to truck and she wouldn't pull so Granddad built a fire under
her. She pulled until she couldn't feel the heat anymore, stopped dead still
again and refused to pull. The bed got burned so bad it had to be replaced
but they managed to keep the damage limited to that.
Wonder if that's where the adage came from, "F**** a mule that won't pull".
davidj92 :- D