Mombu the Aviation Forum sponsored links

Go Back   Mombu the Aviation Forum > Aviation > 100 Hour Inspection Question
User Name
Password
REGISTER NOW! Mark Forums Read

sponsored links


Reply
 
1 5th March 12:32
pat barry
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


Dear Mr. Knox:

I'm afraid you are mistaken.

Renting out an aircraft is a commercial operation in itself, and an aircraft
cannot be used in any operation for compensation or hire beyond the currency of
the 100 hours inspection. An application can be given to the FAA whereby the
FAA can extend this by ten hours - but that is the only break there is.

I can assure you that when a plane is out of a hundred hour inspection that it
cannot be rented out.
  Reply With Quote


  sponsored links


2 5th March 12:33
ron rosenfeld
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


That is NOT what the relevant FAR states


I can assure you that your opinion does not agree with that of most FSDO's.
Which FSDO supports your thesis?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
  Reply With Quote
3 5th March 12:33
stu gotts
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


That statement is certain to piss some of the natives off. I'm sure
the "armchair lawyers" of the group (they know who they are) will
start listing and quoting their sacred "FARS" along with their own
interpretation of such, in anticipation of being elevated to the
position of "Armchair Chief Justice".
  Reply With Quote
4 5th March 12:35
tarver engineering
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


None for long, if Pat posts their name here.

It must have been some sort of misunderstanding ...
  Reply With Quote
5 5th March 12:35
james m. knox
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


It's renting of a piece of property. It is a commercial operation and
will require the renter to hold a state sales certificate (although not
have to pay state tax in most states).

But it can be flown by the renter, or his pilot (including a flight
instructor *the renter provides*, as long as it is in annual and
otherwise airworthy. No 100 hour inspection is required.

I hate to quote FSDO web sites, because they are frequently in error.
But from, for instance, the Albany FSDO website:

"Aircraft rental by itself isn't "for hire," and applicants bring the
airplane to me for the test. However, the aircraft may have a recurring
AD that requires compliance every 100 hours, so although the 100-hour
inspection may be unnecessary, AD compliance may be."

More officially, here's an FAA Chief Counsel letter interp:

May 3, 1984
Mr. Perry Rackers
Jefferson City Flying Service

Dear Mr. Rackers

This is in reply to your request of May 1, 1984, that we render
an opinion regarding the applicability of the 100-hour
inspections requirement of Section 91.169(b) of the Federal
Aviation Regulations to rental aircraft. Section 91.169(b) of
the Federal Aviation Regulations provides that, except as noted
in Section 91.169(c), a person may not operate an aircraft
carrying any person, other than a crewmember, for hire, and may
not give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides unless, within the previous 100 hours of time
in service, the aircraft has received either an annual or a
100-hour inspection.

If a person merely leases or rents an aircraft to another
person and does not provide the pilot, that aircraft is not
required by Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations
to have a 100-hour inspection. As noted above, the 100-hour
inspection is required only when the aircraft is carrying a
person for hire, or when a person is providing flight instruction
for hire, in their own aircraft.

If there are any questions, please advise us.

Sincerely,
/s/
Joseph T. Brennan
Associate Regional Counsel


Wouldn't be the first time... but not in this case.

jmk
  Reply With Quote
6 9th March 04:40
tarver engineering
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


Nope, go read your own FAA opinion again.
  Reply With Quote
7 10th March 16:20
james m. knox
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


Okay... been there, done that. Care to try to be more specific?

Note that I specifically referred to a flight instructor PROVIDED BY THE
RENTER. Be very careful when you simply see a sentence about use of the
aircraft "for hire or compenation, including flight instruction." If you
look more carefully you will see that they are talking about the FBO
providing both the plane and flight instructor. That indeed DOES require a
100 hour inspection.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721 jknox@trisoft.com
-----------------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote
8 10th March 16:21
ron natalie
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


Renting out an aircraft (without a pilot) isn't any kind of operation as far as the FAA is concerned.


And I can assure you, you are completely wrong. The rule says "carrying passengers
for hire." Rental is not carrying passengers for hire. The FAA has issued an official
ruling on this. I will repost it here as people insist on repeating this bogosity:

May 3, 1984
In Reply Refer To: ACE-7

Mr. Perry Rackers
Jefferson City Flying Service
PO Box 330
Jefferson City, Missouri 65101

Dear Mr. Rackers
This is in reply to your request of May 1, 1984, that we render an opinion regarding the applicability of the 100-hour
inspections requirement of Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations to rental aircraft.
Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations provides that, except as noted in Section 91.169(c), a person may not
operate an aircraft carrying any person, other than a crewmember, for hire, and may not give flight instruction for hire in an
aircraft which that person provides unless, within the previous 100 hours of time in service, the aircraft has received either an
annual or a 100-hour inspection.
If a person merely leases or rents an aircraft to another person and does not provide the pilot, that aircraft is not required by
Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations to have a 100-hour inspection. As noted above, the 100-hour inspection is
required only when the aircraft is carrying a person for hire, or when a person is providing flight instruction for hire, in their
own aircraft.
If there are any questions, please advise us.

Sincerely,
/s/
Joseph T. Brennan
Associate Regional Counsel
  Reply With Quote
9 10th March 16:21
ron natalie
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


It is not an "operation" as far as the FAA is concern. Operating involves
providing an aircraft and a pilot.
  Reply With Quote
10 10th March 16:21
ron natalie
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question


You've changed what you are talking about. Your original assertion was
that any rental was covered by 100 hour. The legal interps posted here
cover that.

Now if you want to talk about the "flight instructor providing the aircraft"
versus "flight instructor provided by the renter" there's another legal interp.


We refer to your letter dated January 28, 1975, which requests our interpretation of FAR 91.169(b) as that regulation might apply
to your flying club.
You state that the Ge****a Lockheed Employees Recreation Club, Inc. (GLERC) is a nonprofit organization which owns five Cessna
airplanes. These airplanes are operated by members of GLERC Flying Club, Inc. It is not clear whether Ge****a Lockheed Employees
Recreation Club, Inc. is the same organization as GLERC Flying Club, Inc. If these two corporations are in fact different, I assume
that the Recreation Club permits the Flying Club to utilize the airplanes by lease or other similar arrangement.
You pose the following question:
If a student furnishes an airplane which is not operated for hire to be used for his own flight instruction and he then pays a
flight instructor for instruction, must the airplane have received a 100 hour inspection within the previous 100 hours in order to
comply with FAR 91.169(b)?
For the purposes of our reply, we assume that the "student" referred to above is a member of GLERC Flying Club, Inc. and the
airplane furnished is one of the Cessnas operated by the Flying Club.

{p19}

Section 91.169(b) pertinently provides:
... [1] no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and [2] no person may give
flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service it
has received ... 100-hour inspection ... (Numbers and brackets added.)
In the first instance, the student is not carrying anyone for hire. Moreover, the flight instructor is a crewmember. Thus, there
is no requirement for the airplane to have a 100-hour inspection.
In the second instance, the flight instructor is not providing his own airplane, the airplane being furnished by the student.
Thus, this part of Section 91.169(b) does not appear to be applicable.
In view of the above, it is our opinion that FAR 91.169(b) does not apply to the factual situation presented.

Very truly yours,
R.R. HAGADONE
Attorney
Office of the Regional Counsel
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes




Copyright 2006 SmartyDevil.com - Dies Mies Jeschet Boenedoesef Douvema Enitemaus -
666