s herman

I am a new student w/ about 8 hours. We are practicing power off stalls
at about 4500AGL in a C-172. 2 days before I had done my first couple
very nicely. This day I'm late getting the flaps down and I'm still a
little fast and as I'm pulling back I notice that I'm pitching up more
than I remembered. Since I'm such a newbie, I'm not paying attention to
the rudders too much to keep the nose from drifting. As the plane
stalls, I apply power & pich forward like I'm supposed to, but it rolls
left very quickly, and of course my instinct (fine automobile driver
that I am) is to counter the left roll with right aileron. This all
happens in a couple of seconds, the plane is pointed way down and begins
to spin to the left. I have basically lost control of the plane.
Instructor instantly takes over & recovers. I was a little stunned and
I'll admit a bit frightened for a moment. But as he recovers i say
enthusiastically, "That was a good one!". A few minutes later I hear him
chuckling, and I say, "what's so funny?" He says "that WAS a good one."
and something to the effect that it's fun to break the boredom once in
awhile. Anyway it was good lesson. I learned how to do a near acrobatic
manuever without even trying! But, also; don't deflect the ailerons
during stall - use rudders. Use rudder to keep plane nose straight ahead
as you approach stall. Have the flaps in & plane stable and losing
airspeed gradually as you approach the stall. Don't do it all at once.
Finally if it ever happens again, he said put my hands in my lap and let
the plane fly itself out of it, then recover gently to straight & level

ryan

Your future stalls will probably be 10 times better than most students after
you've had this experience. Your rudder control during future stalls will
be second nature
Take a spin training course sometime (even if it is after you get your
private). You wont regret it and it will really improve your confidence.

Ryan

roger long

Read the last article on this page:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Articles.htm

if you'd like to know more about what happened.

See also the thread "Stall Resistant 172?" over in rec.aviation.piloting.

--
Roger Long

jgalban

Question for instructors on the group. I this really sound advice?
While the Cessna singles will "usually" fly out of an incipient spin
hands off, it's not guaranteed. Wouldn't this be an opportune moment
to teach the student how to get out of the spin using the proper
control inputs? Not all light singles respond the way C-172s do.
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

highfllyer

But, also; don't deflect the ailerons


Good advice. Use rudder to turn away from the lowest wing. That will cause
the lower wing to rise toward level flight.

Use rudder to keep plane nose straight ahead

That is fine for a PLANNED stall. It doesn't always happen that way if the
stall sneaks up and surprises you!

In many small trainers that advice will work. However, in many airplanes
that you may fly that advice will, instead, get you peacefully and quietly
killed. Many certified aircraft will not reliably recover from a spin
unless the pilot takes the proper spin recovery action. That proper action
may ALSO vary with different airplanes.

The spin is a stalled condition with forces providing a more or less stable
autorotation component.

With a single engine aircraft the best procedure is to stop the rotation
first by briskly applying full rudder against the spin. Nuetralize the
ailerons in most cases since the ailerons are at best ineffective in a
deeply stalled condition. When the rotation stops, which may take several
complete turns, then merely recover normally from the stalled condition.
Airspeed will build up rapidly during the recovery which is often entered at
a steep nose down attitude. Be careful not to exceed four G's on the
pullout and do not let the airspeed build excessively and pass Vne. With
some airplanes it can be a delicate dance to meet both of those requirements
at the same time. :-)

With a standard twin engine aircraft the best procedure is to break the
stall by pitching down first and then recover normally from the resulting
high speed spiral. This differs from the single engine procedure because of
the different distribution of mass about the airframe. It has to do with
the moments about the CG in the different axis of the aircraft. By the
way, if you get into this situation you have just become a "Test Pilot."
Twin engine airplanes are typically NOT spun for certification.

The result is the same in both cases. There are two things you have to
accomplish, in some reasonable order, to recover from a spin situation. You
must get the airplane out of the stalled condition and get it flying again.
AND you must stop the rotation and get it into straight and level flight
again.

A very pretty, if somewhat uncomfortable, maneuver that I used to do in my
airshow routine years ago was the "Falling Leaf" which is a series of spin
entries in opposite directions. You start a spin in one direction and
immediately stop it and enter one in the opposite direction. You repeat
this until you have used sufficient altitude. It uses altitude very quickly
without allowing the airspeed to increase because you are stalled during the
entire execution of the maneuver. The airplane is falling from side to side
like a leaf fluttering to earth from a tall tree. Hence the name, "Falling
Leaf", for the maneuver! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville DuQuoin Airport ( PJY )

s herman

Thanks to all who responded. I get instruction from a second instructor
once in a while. He was my first instructor but he is flying a charter
Citation more and more now so he is not available on a regular basis.

I did fly a couple days ago with him and went over the approach to
landing stalls and he showed me how my timing of the flaps, and yoke
control technique was making it harder on myself. I was not increasing
back pressure to maintain the pitch attitude - once i pulled back on the
yoke I was holding it there, so as airspeed bled off the nose was
settling, delaying the stall. While waiting in vain for the stalI would
then be fighting the wings level thing. I need to keep increasing back
pressure to maintain pitch so the stall indication comes in a timely
manner.

In regards to the hands-off recovery method he said pretty much what
you've said here. He said that in order to spin to the ground from a
relatively safe practice altitude, you would have to hold the controls
in such a way that would prevent the 172 from recovering on it's own,
thus the procedure for putting the hands in the lap for a scared perhaps
frozen up student pilot. He said we will go into specific spin recovery
later, but that full rudder opposite to the spin is how it's done

robert a. barker

Highflyer: Good to "hear from you" I began to wonder where you where.

Bob Barker N8749S