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1 3rd October 00:52
mike harding
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Posts: 1
Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Hey Gang.., is this the right NG for questions regarding repairs and
maintenance on older equipment.., RJ's, 727's, 737, 747's, etc..?
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2 3rd October 09:28
tom sanderson
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Depends...for general info, and detailed but unverifiable discussion, it's
as good a place as any. I don't actually know the backgrounds of all the
people who post here regularly but there seem to be enough "insiders" that
we can probaly cough up something.

For actually getting repair designs (especially approved ones), you're
probably better off going directly to the manufacturer.

Per your subject line, MRO's don't have the authority to approve repairs,
unless they're already covered by the manufacturer's manuals. Even the
MRO's have to ask the OEM's to approve their proposed repairs.

Tom.
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3 3rd October 09:28
mike harding
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Thanks Tom.
Actually the (MRO) is a generic term for Maintenance, Repair, and
Overhaul, as opposed to OEM for Original Manufacture Equipment.
Right now the US has fewer, and fewer facilities housing Certified Repair
Stations (Chapter 145), which are certified to handle both Boeing, Airbus,
and smaller RJ (Regional Jets) repairs, modifications, and retrofits.
With the Chinese waiting in the wings to start their own repair stations
overseas, I'm wanting to field questions per the US aging aircraft program,
and related questions.
The US fleet is now coming out of warrantee and this has air service
providers questioning whether to replace, or repair..??!!
I had tried to mention in a former post a new facilities was opening and
might have positions open, but the modulators blew the post off, thus the
question of whether I had the right NG..!! Mike..!!
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4 3rd October 09:28
tom sanderson
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Very true. My point was just that even certified repair stations can't
approve their own repair designs. They can do previously designed repairs
that are in the Structural Repair Manual (Boeing) or whatever the equivalent
do***ent is from the other OEM's but, if they have to design a repair, the
OEM (technically, the Type Certificate holder) or the local regulator has to approve it.


Go for it...the worst that can happen is we say "I don't know."

The US fleet has been out of warranty for a *long* time...most aircraft
spend about 80%+ of their lives out of warranty. None of the US legacy
carriers have been ordering a lot of new aircraft for years, so almost all
of their fleet is out of warranty.

Tom.
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5 3rd October 09:28
jbaloun
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


My MRO experience is very limited. I visited NWI in Edmonton about 1993
or so to help coordinate the installation of some cabin interior panels
while the NASA C130 was getting a D-check. NWI facility is now L-3 SPAR
Aerospace, doing the same work. Another visit to Timco in Greensboro,
South Carolina to arrange for them to build a full set of shoring for a
mod to the NASA DC-8 which we completed in the hangar at Moffett Field.
Timco had planes in the facility getting re-skinned and gutted for
repairs; standard D-check work. While at Timco I heard horror stories
of freighters in South America that were used to haul animals (not
unherd of) and the urine and dung would eventually migrate to the keel
and corrode the fuselage. When the plane arrived you could push a
screwdriver up through the skin where it would usually take a fire-ax
to break through.

http://www.spar.ca/
http://www.timco.aero/

This was about 10 years ago but from what I saw and heard from our
program managers mechanics and Quality engineers the MRO experience,
after the contract is in place, is a complex competitive game played
between the vendor and the customer. The QE had to watch very carefully
that the work was being done per the contract, according to the repair
manual, and correctly. They had to watch every step (every line item of
every job card) to be sure the vendor was not cutting corners to get
work signed off. In this way the vendor was trying to get the job done
at the lowest cost and the customer (our guys) did not mind making the
vendor do as much work as they could get out of them by strictly
interpreting the contract items. Sometimes the vendor got away with
less than the complete job, but still basically airworthy, and
sometimes our guys got the vendor to do a little extra work they did
not want to do because of an interpretation of the contract terms. An
interpretation of exactly what the contract is asking for.

Your comments refer to the aging US fleet. I am not sure what you mean
by planes going our of warrantee. Sounds like they are out-living their
original product support agreements? Some 30 year old planes are still
supported indirectly by the manufacturers. A company like Timco has
paid for the rights to use the original Douglas drawings which are now
owned by Boeing. Many DC-8 parts have not been "off the shelf" for
years and Timco will machine new ones as needed. Timco at the time had
stockpiled some of the rare extrusions which they new they would need
for common DC-8 repairs. There is an extensive network of parts
suppliers which track the location and airworthiness of parts for just
about every plane in operation.

Do you know or think that the US is loosing its MRO facilities? I have
heard of the increasing MRO work in China and Asia but there is also a
lot of work to go around and more on the way.

Check with the moderator or check the faq to find out why your previous
post was rejected. It may have over-stepped one of the newsgroup
guidelines. Some newsgroups do not want to become job listing services.

Hope this helps. I do not know much more about MRO.

James
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6 3rd October 09:28
tom sanderson
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


The FAA has told Boeing they have to support all of their type certificates
as long as there are functional aircraft in the world. The 707 and DC-3
still get direct Boeing support.

Tom.
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7 3rd October 09:28
chornedsnorkack
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Are DC-2, Boeing 80, Boeing 247 and 307 still supported likewise?

What about Convair 880 and 990 jets?
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8 3rd October 09:28
johnl@iecc.com (john
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


They're still in service. Remember that the 707 is the base of some
military planes like AWACS.


I would be astonished of any of those were in flyable condition.
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9 3rd October 09:28
mike harding
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Okay guys.., those A/C haven't been around since the 1930's, and are in
museums or historical websites.., so if we could, I'd like to keep this
tread to the "current" status of the remaining US repair stations, and their
"survival." Basically, let's keep to the current MRO activities, and their
work on Boeing, and Airbus equipment such as B727, B737, B747, DC-10, MD-11,
L-1011, and some MD-80 series / DC-9's. These are still the mainstay of the
MRO business, and apparently still the making money..(smile)..!! MRO
facilities these days do very little STC work as referred to above.., but
James' comments were great, and added a little insight for the non-contract
A&P's out there..!! Thanks.., Mike Harding.., Evergreen, Timco, Gulfstream,
Raytheon, Victorville Aerospace, Santa Barbara Aerospace, Hamilton....,
etc..!!
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10 3rd October 09:28
tom sanderson
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Default Question per MRO vs OEM..?


Nope. Not sure if they got out of them before the current support rules hit
or there just aren't any in commerical service any more. The Airclaims
database doesn't show any of these planes still commercially active.

Right now, Boeing is supporting the following:
DC-8, DC-9, DC-10/MD-10, MD-11, MD-80/90, 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787


General Dynamic shut down the Convair Division in 1996. They would have had
to hand the drawings off to somebody if there was any support still
happening, but I have no idea who.

Tom.
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