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1 9th July 09:25
waynec
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


Why are you so hell-bent on spending a lot of money ruining this car
when all
you have to do is replace or repair your old intake manifold?
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2 9th July 09:25
the reverend natural light
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


You'll be dumping more hydrocarbons into the catalytic converter than
it was designed for. Be prepared for the cat to melt down or set
grass on fire. You might have to gut it, which will be yet another crime committed.

What about the air cleaner? Have a look at the air intake on a 5.2L
Jeep Grand Cherokee. It looks like it would fit onto a 4bbl carb and
might connect to the original air cleaner with some adaptation.


It'll be a parts car when you're finished with it.

The HEI distributor will spark the plugs if you hook up the power wire
and nothing else. That doesn't mean it's working properly. It will
function in a backup mode with no mechanical or vacuum advance. So
yes, it will work and it won't work. Spend the $50 at a junkyard and
get an HEI off an old pickup truck or something. It'll look just like
the one you have but will have a vacuum solenoid.


Talk to Summit Racing. They'll probably have a cable and bracket to
handle the TV cable. Oh, it's not a kickdown cable. It's a "throttle
valve" cable. It handles shift points, shift firmness, and kickdown.
If you drive with the cable missing or unadjusted, the transmission
will burn up in minutes (learned this the hard way).

Summit also sells a controller for the torque converter lockup.


Someone responded to this in your last post.


$500 for parts, plus $1500 (?) depreciation. Add the TV cable, TCC
controller, fuel pressure regulator, misc hardware.


It's your own car. Enjoy. Just please don't ever buy a ZR1.
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3 9th July 09:25
my name is nobody
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


In my state you would drive it ZERO miles, legally anyway, because you could
not pas the emissions inspection, and could not have a legally licensed car.
periods. So your resale value will flush right down the toilet with this backward modification.

Intake and carburetor verses crossfire injection. Don't have enough time to
address the all of reasons why not to do this huge step backwards here and
now...
Sufise it to say TWO HUGE ****** DOWN ON THE WHOLE IDEA!


Whatever the value, it will be MUCH LOWER with you backwards modification to
a carburetor. This drop in value doesn't even address that your pool of
prospective buyers will be reduced to only the people who could pass their
required emissions inspection and get it licensed. Many states, make that
most states today will not pass or license this car after your backwards modification.

So you have stated that you are already upside down by $1500 on this car,
and you want to nearly double that (not counting your time)? Wow, who could
honestly suggest that this is a good idea?


FYI:
I have done three (pre electronic fuel injection) carburetor to EFI
conversion, and would NEVER suggest, anyone do that, let alone the backwards
modification to a carburetor.

Good luck with your project, I would be willing to bet that by 2 years after
your conversion is COMPLETE, you will be more than willing to admit that it
WAS NOT a good idea.
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4 9th July 09:25
elbert
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Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


(1) who cares about the value of the car. It's your car do what you
will.
If is of value to you to keep it stock then get it fixed. If you want
to hot rod it or modify it, then do so. You can post a simple
question and you'll always get different answers. If you live in an
emissions strict state then it has to matter to you in order to get it
to pass. Otherwise its your car.

(2) I guarantee you that there are a number of manifold and carb
setups
that will fit under the hood. I'm sure a tune port setup would fit
under the hood too.

(3) the Value is in your eyes....

(4) If you go with a carb setup then you don't use an electronically
controlled distributor (ECM controlled).

(5) I'm sure a 1984 car uses a TV / kick down cable for trans
control.
this is easily modified to work on any number of combinations. You
need to start looking at some hot rod magazines, online resources. Its
very common to swap out 700R4 transmissions into old cars ... IF you
are going to run a carb setup for fuel then you stay with a 700R4
transmission. This is not a big issue at all, most any shop can get
something to work here. I suspect that a TV cable out of a 92K1500
would almost work fine.

(6) I think the dash could be the biggest issue if its ECM controlled,
but in 1984 there were very few cars that had any type of ECM control
much less control over the dash. This should be very easy to call
and find out about, as there are any number of shops that just do
corvette work. I just don't think that in 1984 the ECM controlled
very much at all, beyond maybe timing, fuel to some degree, and may
have read engine temp and or O2 level to adjust for fuel.


Get over the hurdle and go buy the shop manuals for your car. Make
some phone calls, ask around where you live.

A 79 Corvette would have a carb and distributor setup you could
replicate. A TV cable for your transmission would be easy to do.
You might make some real gains in power by going with a tuned port
setup, but that's your call.

Once again your project cars value is what it worth to you. IF you
have fun with it and it serves your interest then who cars what other
do. There are plenty of people who $hit-canned the early fuel
injection crap and went with a carb setup on various GM cars, because
a number of them plain ****ed. Now with hindsight its known that the
tuned ports are good performers, and not to hard to setup, or even
entire engine swaps...LT1 for an example would be great candidate for
a vette. Most any of the 5.7 engines out of Z-28 or trans-am would
also be good (fuel injected).

If that were my car, my only two concerns would be. (1) can I pass
emissions if required (2) what kind of crap would I have to deal with
to get the dash to work.

Outside of that everything else is just how
you want to proceed. Either old school with a carb, or something new
with a modern fuel injection setup.
-----------
Elbert
ask@me.com
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5 9th July 09:25
art
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


Thank You, that is my sentiments exactly, with only driving this car less
than 5k/yr max it is a fun toy like a '32 roadster with a 350, the intake
and carb combination is street legal in all 50 states, the catalytic
converters were off this car when I bought it 7 years ago, if this were a
day driver I might feel different, to be slammed about emissions when I look
at the trucks on the interstate smoking so black for thousands of miles each
day. To try to sell this car for even near what I paid for it is
impossible. But to take the top out on a Saturday morning and drive it to
the golf course is what toys are for.

Thanks
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6 9th July 09:25
billy ryman
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


Emmision controls have been around starting from 1968, Catalyst requirements
1974-75, so 1984 isn't exactly the beginning.

Bypassing emmision controls? Might as well tear out the ECM, and all the
wiring that goes with it. You can't cherry-pick with the ECM. You did plan
on rewiring the car, didn't you? Your digital dash?... I guess you'll
replace everything with ****og gages, 'cause non of the electronics will
work.

Classifying it as a street rod maybe false thinking. IIRC that car must meet
the emmission standards in effect at time of manufacture. Federal Law
prohibits removing any type of emmision control device when it is operated
on any public roadway, in any juristiction of the U.S. that receives Federal
Highway Funds.

700R4: Electronic controls? yes and no. A little jewel call a VSS, wired to
the cluster/ECM. You'll have to reverse engineer this system.

And you better consider what you're going to do with the fuel pump/delivery
system. That carb you spec'd WILL NOT handle the pressure from that
electronic pump!

Your $500 quote is laughable!

You'll spend that just to get the wares from JEGS. Then you'll spend at
least another $2K in misc. parts and labor to get it to run.
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7 9th July 09:26
cardsfan
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


My thought is it is probably missing quite a few pieces that will eventually become necessary.

The guy has had his heart set on this refit since he showed up. NO ONE,
including someone who has already done the exact conversion and strongly
advises against it, can talk this guy out of what is going to be a
time-consuming, expensive mistake.

Again, this person places no value whatsoever on his own time, he has a huge
misunderstanding of the complexity of this conversion, or he saved some poor
mechanic's life at some point and is getting the payback. Let him go, but
anyone who abets the effort shares the blame.

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)
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8 9th July 09:26
my name is nobody
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


Amen.
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9 9th July 09:26
billy ryman
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


The irony here is that he could spend $445 for an X-RAM manifold and tap
into some engine potential, and not turn the car into a basket case....

"For Sale: '84 C4 re/red/dead. New Carb & Manifold. Must be towed to be
appreciated. $3500"
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10 9th July 09:26
fixitman
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Posts: 1
Default '84 crossfire to carburator conversion


I've been restoring a 82,000 mile 1984 Corvette for over a year now. During
this process, I've made it a point to know how everything works. The
electrical system was hacked up pretty bad, so this was my primary concern.
Unfortunately, the car ran very poorly, so I had to fix that first. I
initially wanted to convert to carburation, but found the price-to-benefit
ratio to be a negative value.

On the plus side:
1. The cluster only needs the ECM for fuel economy information. The rest of
it will perform perfectly without the ECM.

On the negative (note that the ECM will be effectively dead):
1. The transmission TV cable (throttle valve system) can be adapted to a
carb, but will be difficult to syncronise properly. Result- shift points and
kickdown are never quite right.

2. The TCC (torque converter clutch: overdrive) is controlled electrically
by the ECM. Most aftermarket TCC kits are designed for off-road use, and can
be a real PITA on the street. Leaving the TCC disabled means reducing fuel
economy considerably above 45 MPH. Top speed will also be reduced.

3. The stock distributor will not advance timing properly without the ECM.
Improper timing advance = extremely poor performance. Early
centrifugal+vacuum advance distributors will work, but not as well as the
original system. Once again, it would lose some streetability.

4. Emissions will be higher, because affordable carbs just aren't as
effecient as fuel injection PERIOD. Emissions go up and fuel economy goes
down, resulting in a loss of performance and "fun factor".

I've been working on cars proffessionally for over a decade now. Once I
realized just how much work was involved, and what I would lose, the
decision was easy..... Fix The Crossfire. I later found that the fuel lines
were severely corroded inside, severe enough to plug the fuel filter within
a few days of replacement. I spent about $50 and about 5 hours bending and
installing new fuel lines, and couldn't be happier. The '84 runs great, and
gets 18-20 MPG (if I keep the pedal off the floor).

If the only reason you're bent on starting this project is a cracked
manifold, here is a cheap alternative:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corve...spagenameZWDVW
If it's still available Friday night, I'm going to buy it for a porting
project.....

Fixitman
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