oh boy

Hi, looking at 2 cars first is a 69 350/350hp block # 3970010
2nd is a 69 427/435hp block # 3963512
how can i tell if these are correct...my corvette book does'nt go into that
much detail...thanks...greg 98/ and?
gohara@rogers.com

sting ray

I just checked my Corvette Black Book and those block numbers check out for
the engines specified. #3970010 was the block stamping on late production
350/300 and 350/350 Vettes. #3963512 was the block stamping on late
production 427/390, 427/400, 427/430 and 427/435 engines. The problem you
have is just which horsepower those blocks originally had or now have and
whether or not they are actually Corvette engines. The same basic block
casting is often used for other Chevrolet or GM products. When a Corvette
engine is assembled at an engine plant, an important number is stamped onto
the block. On the '69 Vette, it is stamped on a machined pad just forward of
the cylinder head on the passenger side. Starting in 1957. stamped engine
numbers started with an alpha character indicating build plant. Early
engines up until 1966 used "F" for Flint and "T" for Tonawanda. In 1969,
this number was "V" for the Flint plant and "T" for Tonawanda. I should
mention that all Corvette "Big Blocks" were made in Tonawanda. The next 3 or
4 digits designate the date of engine manufacture. The last 2 characters in
1969 are referred to as the "Suffix Number", even though they are alpha, not
numeric. The Suffix indicates the engine's intended useage. An example would
be F0112RF which would translate to a fuel injected engine (RF), built on
January 12th (0112) at the Flint plant (F). The Suffix number is very
important and has almost always been exclusive to Corvette useage. The
number containing the Suffix is hand stamped into the engine during assembly
by a worker using a tool containing the complete number set. There are
several possible suffixes for the cars you are looking at:

The 350/350 had the 4 following possibilities:
GC - Manual Transmission, Transistor Ignition
GD - Manual Transmission, Air Conditioning, Transistor Ignition
HW - Manual Transmission
HX - Manual Transmission, Air Conditioning

The 427/435 had the 6 following possibilities:
LP - Manual Transmission, Aluminum Heads
LR - Manual Transmission
LT - Manual Transmission, Heavy Duty Clutch
LU - Manual Transmission, Aluminum Heads, Heavy Duty Clutch
LW - Automatic Transmission, Aluminum Heads
LX - Automatic Transmission

So check the engine Suffixes carefully!!! But it doesn't end there! When a
Corvette engine is built, the engine plant knows the intended use of the
engine, but not into which vehicle it will be installed. So when the engine
is mated to a vehicle at the Corvette assembly plant, another set of
numbers containing the sequential part of the vehicle identification number
(VIN) is stamped into the engine to key it to its specific body and chassis.
This number is stamped into the same pad as the Suffix number. More than any
other single number, it is this number's match to the vehicle number that
constitutes the "matching numbers" terminology. Sadly, it is also the first
number to be forged in a counterfeit Corvette!!!

Good Luck with your decision! Hope this helps!

oh boy

Thanks ray, just one more thing if I may...I understand how to breakdown the
V.I.N.# 194679S717052 and the Engine code T0207LR but what does the engine #
19S717052 and the date code of A 24 9 tell me...I'm confused how the suffix
of LR ties into the V.I.N#.....thanks...greg 98/ and?


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tom in missouri

194679S717052 VIN on car
____19S717052 partial VIN on engine
1 - Chevy, 9 - 1969, S - St. Louis

LR has absolutely nothing to do with the VIN. However, if you look it up,
the LR goes in "427, Corvette, 435 hp, manual transmission". If it was
something other than LR, it wouldn't be a 435 hp manual transmission car.
It is common for people to add an intake and set of carbs and pass off a low
horse as a high horse. The suffix tells you what it really is.

The VIN on the engine simply identifies it as the one that is with THIS and
only this car.

However, with the money to be made and that has been made, restamps are
common and I would never spend a lot of money on a car just because it has
the "original" engine because it is too common to fake it. I would have to
see a lot of real paperwork, meet a couple of the owners, and have that gut
feeling if it was real or not.

You find the car in the back of a garage that some lady is selling because
she is moving and her husband owned it but died and she couldn't bare to
sell it, then it probably is genuine.

If you find it on Joe's Corvette Emporium, then you'd better have a
metallurgist with you to determine if the block has been changed, at least
two experts to determine if the car has been made.

sting ray

Hi Greg! The engine number you quote causes me a bit of concern. To my
understanding, based on a body Vin # 194679S717052, it is my understanding
that the Engine Number on this vehicle should be only seven digits which
should read #9717052, with (9) representing the Model Year and (717052)
representing the final six digits of your VIN number. That number you quoted
me is too much of the VIN, because the "S" of the "19S" from the Engine
Number means it was assembled in St. Louis and to my knowledge, the assembly
plant designation was never part of the Engine number. And even if I am
erroneous on this, I would expect the "19" from the "19S" to be "79", to
match the VIN. Perhaps someone in this NewsGroup who owns a 1969 Corvette
could confirm this. The reason that this discrepancy concerns me is the
possibilty that someone restamped the engine number incorrectly when
attempting to counterfeit a "matching numbers" engine. Do yourself a favour
and find someone with a 1969 model to confirm or refute this. I believe
there are a few '69 owners in this NG.

The block casting date code is of particular importance because it tells
when the block was cast in the foundry. Obviously this date does not match
either the date of engine manufacture or vehicle manufacture. But it must
precede the date of engine and vehicle manufacture.The date code of A 24 9
means the engine was built in January (A) the 24th (24) in 1969 (9). This
date code makes sense for a Corvette assembled in February 1969 as indicated
by your VIN.

The tie in of the Suffix code is simply that it identifies two main things:

1) That the Suffix Number stamped on your engine was a legitimate Suffix for
your model year; and

2) It identifies that the engine option matches the Suffix.

A Suffix of LR simply means you have a 427/435 with cast iron heads. So if
for example your car has aluminum heads, they were not originally on the
engine. Counterfeiters often use the LR Suffix because it is the cheapest
engine to counterfeit, since the Aluminum Head's and Heavy Duty clutch are
more expensive to put on an engine. This isn't meant to alarm you, but
merely to alert you to watch out for deception. The best advice I can give
you is to find an owner of a '69 Vette and check out that Engine Number
stamped at the front of the passenger side head.


that

sting ray

Good advice Tom! But I would correct one of your comments. As mentioned in
my initial response, there were 4 different Suffixes possible for a 435hp
manual transmission car: LP, LR, LT and LU.

oh boy

thanks very much guys..great help let you know which car i buy...greg

than

oh boy

Sting Ray.. email me and I'll give you some info on the car
gohara@rogers.com if you'd like. wonder what you think it's worth..greg


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