Waynec 2009-07-09 09:25:23
Why are you so h***-bent on spending a lot of money ruining this car
you have to do is replace or repair your old intake manifold?
The reverend n 2009-07-09 09:25:29
You’ll be dumping more hydrocarbons into the catalytic converter than
it was designed for. Be prepared for the cat to melt down or set
grass on fire. You might have to gut it, which will be yet another crime committed.
What about the air cleaner? Have a look at the air intake on a 5.2L
Jeep Grand Cherokee. It looks like it would fit onto a 4bbl carb and
might connect to the original air cleaner with some adaptation.
It’ll be a parts car when you’re finished with it.
The HEI distributor will spark the plugs if you hook up the power wire
and nothing else. That doesn’t mean it’s working properly. It will
function in a backup mode with no mechanical or vacuum advance. So
yes, it will work and it won’t work. Spend the $50 at a junkyard and
get an HEI off an old pickup truck or something. It’ll look just like
the one you have but will have a vacuum solenoid.
Talk to Summit Racing. They’ll probably have a cable and bracket to
handle the TV cable. Oh, it’s not a kickdown cable. It’s a “throttle
valve” cable. It handles shift points, shift firmness, and kickdown.
If you drive with the cable missing or unadjusted, the transmission
will burn up in minutes (learned this the hard way).
Summit also sells a controller for the torque converter lockup.
Someone responded to this in your last post.
$500 for parts, plus $1500 (?) depreciation. Add the TV cable, TCC
controller, fuel pressure regulator, misc hardware.
It’s your own car. Enjoy. Just please don’t ever buy a ZR1.
My name is n** 2009-07-09 09:25:32
In my state you would drive it ZERO miles, legally anyway, because you could
not pas the emissions inspection, and could not have a legally licensed car.
periods. So your resale value will flush right down the toilet with this backward modification.
Intake and carburetor verses crossfire injection. Don’t have enough time to
address the all of reasons why not to do this huge step backwards here and
Sufise it to say TWO HUGE THUMBS DOWN ON THE WHOLE IDEA!
Whatever the value, it will be MUCH LOWER with you backwards modification to
a carburetor. This drop in value doesn’t even address that your pool of
prospective buyers will be reduced to only the people who could pass their
required emissions inspection and get it licensed. Many states, make that
most states today will not pass or license this car after your backwards modification.
So you have stated that you are already upside down by $1500 on this car,
and you want to nearly double that (not counting your time)? Wow, who could
honestly suggest that this is a good idea?
I have done three (pre electronic fuel injection) carburetor to EFI
conversion, and would NEVER suggest, anyone do that, let alone the backwards
modification to a carburetor.
Good luck with your project, I would be willing to bet that by 2 years after
your conversion is COMPLETE, you will be more than willing to admit that it
WAS NOT a good idea.
Elbert 2009-07-09 09:25:38
(1) who cares about the value of the car. It’s your car do what you
If is of value to you to keep it stock then get it fixed. If you want
to hot rod it or modify it, then do so. You can post a simple
question and you’ll always get different answers. If you live in an
emissions strict state then it has to matter to you in order to get it
to pass. Otherwise its your car.
(2) I guarantee you that there are a number of manifold and carb
that will fit under the hood. I’m sure a tune port setup would fit
under the hood too.
(3) the Value is in your eyes….
(4) If you go with a carb setup then you don’t use an electronically
controlled distributor (ECM controlled).
(5) I’m sure a 1984 car uses a TV / kick down cable for trans
this is easily modified to work on any number of combinations. You
need to start looking at some hot rod magazines, online resources. Its
very common to swap out 700R4 transmissions into old cars … IF you
are going to run a carb setup for fuel then you stay with a 700R4
transmission. This is not a big issue at all, most any shop can get
something to work here. I suspect that a TV cable out of a 92K1500
would almost work fine.
(6) I think the dash could be the biggest issue if its ECM controlled,
but in 1984 there were very few cars that had any type of ECM control
much less control over the dash. This should be very easy to call
and find out about, as there are any number of shops that just do
corvette work. I just don’t think that in 1984 the ECM controlled
very much at all, beyond maybe timing, fuel to some degree, and may
have read engine temp and or O2 level to adjust for fuel.
Get over the hurdle and go buy the shop manuals for your car. Make
some phone calls, ask around where you live.
A 79 Corvette would have a carb and distributor setup you could
replicate. A TV cable for your transmission would be easy to do.
You might make some real gains in power by going with a tuned port
setup, but that’s your call.
Once again your project cars value is what it worth to you. IF you
have fun with it and it serves your interest then who cars what other
do. There are plenty of people who $hit-canned the early fuel
injection c*** and went with a carb setup on various GM cars, because
a number of them plain sucked. Now with hindsight its known that the
tuned ports are good performers, and not to hard to setup, or even
entire engine swaps…LT1 for an example would be great candidate for
a vette. Most any of the 5.7 engines out of Z-28 or trans-am would
also be good (fuel injected).
If that were my car, my only two concerns would be. (1) can I pass
emissions if required (2) what kind of c*** would I have to deal with
to get the dash to work.
Outside of that everything else is just how
you want to proceed. Either old school with a carb, or something new
with a modern fuel injection setup.
Art 2009-07-09 09:25:50
Thank You, that is my sentiments exactly, with only driving this car less
than 5k/yr max it is a fun toy like a ’32 roadster with a 350, the intake
and carb combination is street legal in all 50 states, the catalytic
converters were off this car when I bought it 7 years ago, if this were a
day driver I might feel different, to be slammed about emissions when I look
at the trucks on the interstate smoking so black for thousands of miles each
day. To try to sell this car for even near what I paid for it is
impossible. But to take the top out on a Saturday morning and drive it to
the golf course is what toys are for.
Billy ryman 2009-07-09 09:25:59
Emmision controls have been around starting from 1968, Catalyst requirements
1974-75, so 1984 isn’t exactly the beginning.
Bypassing emmision controls? Might as well tear out the ECM, and all the
wiring that goes with it. You can’t cherry-pick with the ECM. You did plan
on rewiring the car, didn’t you? Your digital dash?… I guess you’ll
replace everything with analog gages, ’cause non of the electronics will
Classifying it as a street rod maybe false thinking. IIRC that car must meet
the emmission standards in effect at time of manufacture. Federal Law
prohibits removing any type of emmision control device when it is operated
on any public roadway, in any juristiction of the U.S. that receives Federal
700R4: Electronic controls? yes and no. A little jewel call a VSS, wired to
the cluster/ECM. You’ll have to reverse engineer this system.
And you better consider what you’re going to do with the fuel pump/delivery
system. That carb you spec’d WILL NOT handle the pressure from that
Your $500 quote is laughable!
You’ll spend that just to get the wares from JEGS. Then you’ll spend at
least another $2K in misc. parts and labor to get it to run.
Cardsfan 2009-07-09 09:26:02
My thought is it is probably missing quite a few pieces that will eventually become necessary.
The guy has had his heart set on this refit since he showed up. NO ONE,
including someone who has already done the exact conversion and strongly
advises against it, can talk this guy out of what is going to be a
time-consuming, expensive mistake.
Again, this person places no value whatsoever on his own time, he has a huge
misunderstanding of the complexity of this conversion, or he saved some poor
mechanic’s life at some point and is getting the payback. Let him go, but
anyone who abets the effort shares the blame.
’93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)
My name is n** 2009-07-09 09:26:08
Billy ryman 2009-07-09 09:26:11
The irony here is that he could spend $445 for an X-RAM manifold and tap
into some engine potential, and not turn the car into a basket case….
“For Sale: ’84 C4 re/red/dead. New Carb & Manifold. Must be towed to be
I've been restoring a 82,000 mile 1984 Corvette for over a year now. During this process, I've made it a point to know how everything works. The electrical system was hacked up pretty bad, so this was my primary concern. Unfortunately, the car ran very poorly, so I had to fix that first. I initially wanted to convert to carburation, but found the price-to-benefit ratio to be a negative value. On the plus side: 1. The cluster only needs the ECM for fuel economy information. The rest of it will perform perfectly without the ECM. On the negative (note that the ECM will be effectively dead): 1. The transmission TV cable (throttle valve system) can be adapted to a carb, but will be difficult to syncronise properly. Result- shift points and kickdown are never quite right. 2. The TCC (torque converter clutch: overdrive) is controlled electrically by the ECM. Most aftermarket TCC kits are designed for off-road use, and can be a real PITA on the street. Leaving the TCC disabled means reducing fuel economy considerably above 45 MPH. Top speed will also be reduced. 3. The stock distributor will not advance timing properly without the ECM. Improper timing advance = extremely poor performance. Early centrifugal+vacuum advance distributors will work, but not as well as the original system. Once again, it would lose some streetability. 4. Emissions will be higher, because affordable carbs just aren't as effecient as fuel injection PERIOD. Emissions go up and fuel economy goes down, resulting in a loss of performance and "fun factor". I've been working on cars proffessionally for over a decade now. Once I realized just how much work was involved, and what I would lose, the decision was easy..... Fix The Crossfire. I later found that the fuel lines were severely corroded inside, severe enough to plug the fuel filter within a few days of replacement. I spent about $50 and about 5 hours bending and installing new fuel lines, and couldn't be happier. The '84 runs great, and gets 18-20 MPG (if I keep the pedal off the floor). If the only reason you're bent on starting this project is a cracked manifold, here is a cheap alternative: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvette-crossfire-intake-84-1984_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ018QQitemZ280185098979QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
If it’s still available Friday night, I’m going to buy it for a porting
Key 2009-07-09 09:26:30
the ECM can be left in the car and continue to controll the
digital dash among other things.
I didn’t have to get analog gages.. —snip—
fuel pressure regulator.
Key 2009-07-09 09:26:34
my conversion and engine overhaul gets
“18-20 MPG (if I keep the pedal off the floor)”.
has 375 to 400 HP and is very fun to drive..
Elbert 2009-07-09 09:26:37
None of you guys have mentioned that there are a number of engine swap
harnesses out there that would allow you to swap something like a
modern tuned port or Vortec style engine over into this car, which
would include a new ECM. IF you determine which cars don’t have
electronic shift and only have to deal with TCC control then that
would solve the shift business.
I realize that you have to know a great deal about car work to really
tackle one of these jobs, so that’s a given.
As far as a TV cable with a Carb. The principle of the TV cable
adjustment is the same, whether its on a carb or fuel injected
car. The brackets are very similar. I don’t see it being a problem to
adapt a bracket , or I believe B&M and others make one that would
Don’t have first hand knowledge of the TCC kits…they may suck don’t
know. As stated there are kits out there. As I related swapping over
a 700R4 into an older car (ie older than an 84 vette) is real common.
I suspect there are a number of proven combinations for brackets and
If you run a carb, you throw the electronic distributor in the garbage
and get an old school HEI distributor (non ECM controlled)
I don’t equate to emissions going up and performance going down.
You don’t go down the road of a hybrid. You either go all the way with
a carb or go all the way fuel injection. Its also clearly a given that
fuel injection is by far cleaner, and more fuel efficient. Potentially
more power depending on the system, due to fuel control.
Meeting emissions requirements does not equal more power.
Yes its clear that fuel economy will not be improved by going to a
carb, but I’m not sure the guy cares about that.
So the idea is that the ECM only drives the mileage “computer” on the
dash. I personally don’t think those things are accurate, and I could
do without that. Don’t know what the initial poster’s preference is on
You can swap the intake, and install a carb, plus a non ECM
distributor and have a very decent performing car. Look into what
all the hot-rod guys are doing to make this happen.
Intake max $200.00
TCC control $75 ?
I don’t agree with making this happen for $500 even if you
do the work yourself. But its very clear that this is somewhat
simple modification if one has basic mechanical skills.
So if you eliminate the distributor, and the fuel injection,
and if you don’t care if the fuel mileage display works, what’s
left that the ECM controls… just TCC? Which you can address.
I believe you could just remove the ECM all together, along with the
stock intake and fuel injection. Install an aftermarket carb and
matching intake, along with a old school HEI distributor and you would
be in business. Yeah its a given there may be some like issues, like
ign on at the distributor and TCC control. But these things are old
school issues that have been out in the hot-rod community
for some time.
Of course if you go old school, that opens the box to all kind of
proven engine combinations that make good streetable power and run
a carb, or even getting a Vortec 350 long block and use a carb for
Like I said… I think a tune port setup is the ticket here, but it
depends on the owners ability and how much $$ he wants to apply.
If were to go to the trouble of going to a carb, I would change the
cylinder heads to something like a Dart Iron Eagle setup, run a
performer style dual plane if it will clear the hood or one of the GM
LT1 old school dual plane intakes, and a matching carb. I would put
that combination up against any cross fire. Carb setups are plenty
There are any number of vehicle setups that one could replicate with a
GM 5.7 engine assembly. To be honest it would be near impossible to do
this even simply for under around $700. And that’s someone who knows
how to do this work on their own.
I think you can easily get a clean running, very smooth drivable car
by going carburetor. Will it pass emission for that year model
vehicle…simply no!, will it outperform a cross-fire setup? maybe,
Will it be more fuel efficient, no! Can someone do this with basic
mechanical skills? yes. Is there value lost…yes if you want the car
to be stock. Will your accessories function, yes. Are there many
sources for modifications such as this, yes.
If I had a more modern vette would I change from fuel injection…no.
Would I consider moving to a more modern fuel injection system over
carb, yes. Why.. power. Are there plenty of parts available for such
a swap over to a carb, yes.
If you want a stock vette, then of course you would not want to do
this. You could easily make a swap like this work out and have a nice
drivable car that performs very well.
Does a 84 vette run a mechanical fuel pump, if not then that would
have to factor into a carb swap. I don’t know what the fuel pressure
requirements for a crossfire is but I would guess around 13 or lbs
similar to a TBI. Of course with a carb you have to reduce that down
to somewhere around 7lbs.
Of course I would make some other adjustments related to emission
controls if I were to go carb setup. Yes you can make adjustments
that actually make the car run better.
If you have pass emissions then you had better play the fuel injection
game and see what your options are. If not then there exists a whole
panacea of options.
Does doing a modification like this increase the value or even
maintain the value, no. Unless you can repair the intake,you have a
dead car on your hands, then something that runs sales better than
something that does not.
Ralph snart 2009-07-09 09:28:04
Yeah, the C-4 is the red-head stepchild of the Vette family. I have a ’95
Base Coupe. It has great ‘AWE’ factor with anybody out of the Corvette
family but it’s treated with much discrimination within the Corvette family.
That said, prices for C-4’s are low. So if you’re modding a C-4 that’s not
a Grand Sport or ZR-1 then you’re not really doing any damage to the Vette
My ’95 LT-1 will outrun almost any stock C-3 and deliver over 20 mpg. Name
any C-3 that can do both. As for the C-5’s, their prices are starting to
soften and in a couple of years they will bottom out – then maybe they will
be treated as badly as they treated the C-4’s.
You should look at some of the Corvette forum message boards for ideas. As
much as I hate to say it, Usenet is dying.
Try these message boards:
Mombu 2009-07-09 16:43:38
Hey, I wouldn’t listen to the Corvette N***’s too much. I have done
exactly what you want to do (an 84 as well) and I love it. I don’t
know about emisions (exempt where I am) or resale value (don’t care
either) but I can tell it is very easy and relatively inexpensive too.
I have a performer rpm intake and speed demon carb and it all fits
under the stock hood perfectly. I even fabed an air box that connects
to the old hood ducts.
Any old HEI dizzy will work fine. I use a crank trigger set up though.
Yes, lots of brackets are available to adapt the existing TV cable
(“kick down”) and adjusting it perfectly is not an issue at all. To
have torque converter lock-up and overdrive in 4’th gear (all thats
needed) you just jumper 2 pins on the 700r4 connector.
My digital dash works just fine without the computer.
I had to change engines anyway so maybe not a “good idea” for you. Who
is to say . . ? I’m extremely happy with mine anyway. It’s 406ci with
GMPP fast burn heads and their “hot” roller cam and the acceleration
is just brutal now in comparison.