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1 29th April 01:00 (bayou
External User
Posts: 1
Default Cigar Seconds............. (dominican republic la gloria cubana romeo y julieta el rico habano arturo fuente)

After listening to advice from the vets here, I ordered a bundle of
Consuegras. This also got me thinking. I did a little research on the subject.
Although a premium cigar is just that, a premium cigar (please don't slam me
on this). A second is a premium cigar with imperfections right? Below is a
"seconds" list I found. I hope that those here that are learned in the subject
can inform me if this list is correct.

The Seconds List
by Tom Mullaney
For: alt.smokers.cigars
There is a great deal of confusion concerning seconds of premium cigars.
Some manufacturers claim that unsalable premium cigars are destroyed at the
factory while others openly sell seconds (or segundos, as they are sometimes
called) with the brand name openly displayed.

This do***ent is an attempt to provide smokers of premium cigars with
sufficient information about the subject so that they may determine if
seconds fit with their pattern of buying and smoking cigars.

The list of seconds is up to date with information available to me in
January 1998. Contributions of additional information are welcomed. Send
them to:


I. What are seconds?

Seconds can be grouped into the following categories:

1. True Seconds- These are the cigars that are pulled out of rollers
bundles because they have imperfections that make them unacceptable for
sale as Primos. Generally, the more exclusive (and higher priced) the brand
the more carefully the seconds are selected out.
The appearance seconds are removed due to discolored or spotted wrappers,
large veins either in the wrapper or in the binder which show through the
wrapper, chipped or torn wrappers, unevenly applied caps and misshapen
Other seconds are from manufacturers who weigh their finished cigars and
pull those out that fall outside of a standard weight, with the assumption
that they will have an inferior draw.

2. Short/medium filler- when the amount of prime tobacco leaf that is
trimmed in the process of constructing a premium cigar it is understandable
why short and medium filler cigars are manufactured by premium cigar
companies. They come under various names, with 'cazadores' and 'fumas'
designations commonly used. This type of cigar usually burns differently
from its long filler counterpart but often maintains the flavor of the
line. However they may also contain tobacco from bales or leaves from
within bales which is considered to be of lower quality after inspection.

3. Trainers- With the upsurge in cigar demand and the resulting increase in
the number of factories more rollers need to be trained. Their output,
generally known as 'trainer cigars', are appearing on the market. The
cigars made by apprentice rollers are sometimes constructed from tobacco
made available specifically for that purpose or from that used in
short/medium filler cigars.
These cigars have the widest variation, going from the first attempts by
newly hired rollers to the final products of those ready to join the ranks
of the regular rollers.

4. House Brands- Many cigar distributors have cigars made specifically for
them at large manufacturing facilities. They often bear designations "made
for '***' in the 'YYY' factory". Although in numerous cases they have a
different blend, there are some that have been identified as seconds of
well known brands.


II. Why buy Seconds?

There are some good reasons to buy seconds;

1. Economy- Seconds represent a tremendous value compared to the banded
versions of the name cigars; in some cases costing as little as 20% of the
name brands.

2. Availability- Often when a brand is in short supply, the seconds are
still available, allowing the consumer to continue smoking their favorite
brand and at a lower price.

3. Variety- A number of cigar smokers are looking for something new to try
and seconds give then an opportunity to sample new brands at a reasonable


III. The Seconds List

The following have been confirmed by numerous cigar smokers as seconds of
well known brands:

Private Stock -> Davidoff
Pride Of Copan -> Zino
Old Fashioned -> Macanudo & Partagas
Rollers Choice -> Fonseca & Cubita
El Credito (banded) -> La Gloria Cubana
Caribbean Seconds (Casa de Klafters) -> Calle Ocho, Signature Collection &
Super Premiums (I) -> Pleiades
Super Premiums (II) -> Romeo y Julieta Vintage & Credo
Flor de Ybor City -> Arturo Fuente (long filler)
Tampa Sweehearts -> Arturo Fuente (short/medium filler)
El Rico Habano Seconds
Licenciado Seconds
Te Amo Seconds
Roly Seconds
El Sublimado Bundles

Private Stock- These are the seconds of the Dominican Davidoff line and are
an excellent value. At current pricing a box of Private Stock #1 lists for
around $85, a box of Davidoff Aniversario #1 lists for $450. With the
stringent appearance guidelines that Davidoff maintains for its signature
brand the smallest of appearance defects will cause a down grade to seconds
status. Availability can be a problem with these, even though they show up
on many price lists. (Some items have been cut down by 1/4-1/2 in. Not all
items have matches.)

Private Stock Davidoff
#1 Aniversario #1
#2 Aniversario #2
#3 3000
#4 No. 2
#5 ?
#6 5000
#7 ?
#8 ?
#9 Ambassadrice
#10 Grand Cru #4 or #5
#11 Special 'R'

Pride Of Copan- Seconds of Davidoff's Zino line, some items have also been
shortened. Not quite as big a value as the Davidoff seconds, they still are
reasonable. As with the Davidoff's they suffer from the same availability
problems. (Not all items have matches.)

Pride Of Copan Zino
#1 Veritas
#2 Tradition
#3 ?
#4 Mouton Cadet No.2
#5 Juniors
#6 Mouton Cadet No.4
#7 ?

Old Fashioned- Distributed by Mike's Cigar in Miami, Old Fashioned's are
also available from other suppliers. The line is divided between the
Macanudo and Partagas lines. With the exception of a few Macanudo items
that are sold under their standard retail names, Those with two digit
numerical designations are the Partagas seconds, those with three digit
designations are Macanudo seconds. Pricing is around 40% of MSRP. (Not all
items have matches.)

Old Fashioned P/M
#31 Partagas #1
#32 Partagas #2
#33 Partagas #3
#34 Partagas #4
#36 Partagas #6
#38 ?
#40 Partagas #10
#250 Macanudo Claybourne
#350 Portofino
#500 Duke Of Devon
#550 Crystal
#600 ?
#700 Baron De Rothschild
#745 ?
#749 Prince Philip

Rollers Choice- Made in the Cubita factory these seconds represent both the
Cubita and Fonseca lines. The two lines share a few sizes so the seconds
follow the size chart of each brand. They appear on numerous price lists
but often are unavilable. Pricing is around 1/2 of the primos.

El Credito (banded)- These are the acknowledged seconds of the La Gloria
Cubana line. Examples have been seen from both the Miami and Dominican
Republic factories. Included in the line are two short filler cigars, the
Super Habanero and Fumas. These should not be confused with the El Credito
trainer cigars sold by Mom's and the El Credito Special cigars sold by
Holt's. These are separate identifiable unbanded lines, the first being the
ones produce by the apprentice rollers at the Dominican Republic factory
and the other a different blend.

Caribbean Seconds (Casa de Klafters)- currently available through Cigar
Express these are seconds from the primary Caribbean lines. The natural
wrapper cigars are identified as Signature Collection/Santiago Cubana if
they are in cello, Calle Ocho if uncelloed. The maduros are Havana
Classicos. Most of these seconds are a year old or greater. Pricing is
usually around 1/3 of MSRP or less.

Super Premium (I)- The first of the cigars sold under this name are seconds
from Pleiades and are available from Mom's Cigar in New York. Pricing is
around 25% of MSRP.

Super Premium (II)- The other line that bears this name are the seconds of
Romeo y Julieta Vintage and Credo. The items numbered #100-400 are from
the Romeo y Julieta line, #500-900 from Credo. They are listed in some of
the Texas cigar stores and have been available from Cigar Express. Expect
pricing at around 1/2 MSRP when they are available.

Flor de Ybor City- Tampa Sweetheart offers a line that are Arturo Fuente
Seconds. The line is not complete and so far only green band lines have
been identified. Pricing is around 1/2 of MSRP.

Ybor #80 ???(shortened Dbl. Chateau)
Ybor Corona Cuban Corona
Ybor #1 Curly Head Deluxe
Ybor Presidente Canones
Ybor Toro Rothchild or Chateau Fuente
Ybor #85 Flor Fina 8-5-8
Ybor Pierce Churchill
Ybor #270 Seleccion Privada #1

They also have a line called 'Tampa Sweetheart Bundles' which are trainer
cigars from the Fuente factory. The full line has not been identified and
no black band items are known.

El Rico Habano Seconds- Holts has been selling these at 60% of MSRP. No
other sources have been found.

Licenciados Segundos- Distributed by Mike's Cigar, these can also be found
at Cigar Express and some other places. Usually 50% or less of MSRP.

Te Amo Seconds- Widely available from JR, Famous, and other sources. Priced
at less than 50% of MSRP.

Roly Seconds- Seconds of the Roly line they are listed in the Puros Indios
catalog. They bear different names than the Primos but are readily
identifiable by the size. Priced at less than 50% of MSRP.

El Sublimado Bundles- Cigar Express has carried these for some time. They
are bundles of 50 of the El Sublimado Corona at a very attractive price.
They have been stored for long enough that the peculiar smell of the cognac
flavoring is no longer evident.


IV. Apocrypha Of Seconds

There is a lot of information floating around about seconds which cannot be
verified or on which differences of opinion exist. Additions and
clarifications to this section will be appreciated:

Lane Bundles- Sold as seconds from Dunhill and Montecruz, these have only
been found at individual cigar shops and not in mail order catalogs. Jay
Takacs and David Clark get them from their local shops who say they are
from Lane. Lew Rothman of JR says they aren't what they are reputed to be.

Consolidated Bundles- Sold as seconds of H. Upmann and Don Diego, these have
only been found at individual cigar shops and not in mail order catalogs.
Binny Satin and Denis McGrath both have sources that say they are from the
primary lines. Doubt of their provenance comes from some different in
sizing from the Primos.

Consuegra- In this case Lew Rothman says that these are seconds of Punch
and Hoyo de Monterey from the Villazon factory, but a size by size
comparison does not produce enough matches to confirm this.

W y D Bundles- Reputed to be Don Tomas seconds but no confirmation has been

Kings- Some believe that thse are Casa Blanca seconds due to the
close comparisons, particularily on the large unique sizes, but this has
not been confirmed.

a.k.a Bayou Biscuit
Remove (biscuit) to reply

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