OT: Padilla - Mombu the Cigars, Habanos and Pipes Forum

I'm not very cozy with the idea of holding people without charging
them with anything, but I am also not cozy with the situation being
such that loyaz (lawyers, diminutively) have the very real potential
to jeopardize investigations into terror, and leave our nation *****
and exposed to another brutal terror attack.

I'm not trying to be a troll, or anything, but the very real
moral/ethical dilemma is present with issues such as this... You have
to weigh the consequences of these conditions. Can our priceless
constitution survive another holocaust? (I mean mass-fiery death, or
otherwise) Isn't it better to wipe your proverbial behind with the
constitution in an effort to save it than doing a full-fledged number
two on it straightaway? If people think their privacy rights, and
constitutional rights are being trampled on now, guess what will
happen if another holocaust takes place?

WITH REGARD TO PADILLA... If he's providing information to us that
we're able to use to capture Al Qaeda members, is it more or less an
act of intellectual dishonesty to charge him, give him legal counsel,
who will then have padilla clam up, and we lose an information
source...

In this case, is it the court that is wrong? He's being held as an
enemy combatant... If he's providing us intel on the enemy against his
will, isn't he de-facto a captured enemy combatant?

???

DJM

and the relevance to asp?

MWR

information

held as an

against his

Well... ...Dan did [OT] it - and it is an American NG...

All kidding aside M., why would this be any different than the 90% OT
content of ASP?

John

==========================
John Hamilton McGrath
Handcrafted Pipes:
http://www.pipe-works.net/
==========================

----------

There is no such thing. There may, however, be "American
dominated" NGs.

Numbers, and OT markers aside, American posters seeking
reinforcement in their political beliefs could find more
suitable venues of which there are plenty. ("American" I use
because I have yet to see other posters foisting their
national OT issues upon us.)

MWR

"John Hamilton McGrath" :

Hello MWR,

It's too bad that you object to political postings.

Daniel Morlan is perfectly within his rights to express his political opinions
here. It is natural for him to do so as he regards people here as his friends.
When friends get together, they chat. Even in pipe shops, those gather talk
about things outside of the realm of pipes and tobaccos. Further, Dan warned
those who want only P&T chat by employing the prefix of "OT."

Jack

I do. The subject's been around so many times it is becoming
a bore, so do keep posting partisan blather here; it will
make little difference.

MWR

NG...

Manfred,
Unfortunately, the group, en masse, decided that OT was acceptable in
whatever quantity or quality as long as the OT header was used. At this
point, splitting hairs over what OT is appropriate and what isn't is
pretty pointless.

This thread got many responses. Serious P&T threads, beyond what you're
smoking and what you just got, seem to die pretty quickly. Oh well.

--

Jeff Folloder

Please visit Jeff's Ashtray:
http://www.folloder.com/jeffsashtray/

It's very simple for me. If he is an American citizen, then he should be
provided the protections of the constitution. If he is not, then he doesn't
fall under the constitution--only international law, which is a nebulous and
always changing guide. I'm sure many lawyers would argue otherwise, but this is
just my opinion.

Greg T.

I would argue that the relevance is that if a court can arbitrarily grant or
take away rights, then they can do the same for anything. For instance the
right to smoke in or on your own property. When we lose our freedom in any
capicity, then we are all diminished.

Greg T

The real question is why he doesn't have the brains to filter "OT" and its
variations. I only saw this thread because of his "Padilla" subject line.
Perhaps people from .fr are more interested in finding excuses to bitch about
anything related to the US than they are in actually avoiding the content they
claim to be offended by?

--
Bugger off, Chirac.

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2 26th January 04:19 mwr External User Posts: 1	Padilla and the relevance to asp? MWR information held as an against his

3 26th January 04:20 john hamilton mcgrath External User Posts: 1	Padilla Well... ...Dan did [OT] it - and it is an American NG... All kidding aside M., why would this be any different than the 90% OT content of ASP? John ========================== John Hamilton McGrath Handcrafted Pipes: http://www.pipe-works.net/ ========================== ----------

4 26th January 04:20 mwr External User Posts: 1	Padilla There is no such thing. There may, however, be "American dominated" NGs. Numbers, and OT markers aside, American posters seeking reinforcement in their political beliefs could find more suitable venues of which there are plenty. ("American" I use because I have yet to see other posters foisting their national OT issues upon us.) MWR "John Hamilton McGrath" :

6 26th January 04:20 mwr External User Posts: 1	Padilla I do. The subject's been around so many times it is becoming a bore, so do keep posting partisan blather here; it will make little difference. MWR NG...

8 26th January 04:21 gpturn4 External User Posts: 1	OT: Padilla It's very simple for me. If he is an American citizen, then he should be provided the protections of the constitution. If he is not, then he doesn't fall under the constitution--only international law, which is a nebulous and always changing guide. I'm sure many lawyers would argue otherwise, but this is just my opinion. Greg T.

9 26th January 04:21 gpturn4 External User Posts: 1	Padilla I would argue that the relevance is that if a court can arbitrarily grant or take away rights, then they can do the same for anything. For instance the right to smoke in or on your own property. When we lose our freedom in any capicity, then we are all diminished. Greg T

10 26th January 05:42 anonymo421 External User Posts: 1	Padilla The real question is why he doesn't have the brains to filter "OT" and its variations. I only saw this thread because of his "Padilla" subject line. Perhaps people from .fr are more interested in finding excuses to bitch about anything related to the US than they are in actually avoiding the content they claim to be offended by? -- Bugger off, Chirac.