mike barnard

Hi all.

Please welcome one newbie to the world of bread! <fx, cheers> Yup,
my partner and I got a Morphy Richards fastbake bread machine for
christmas, and we've been making a loaf a day so far.

BUT. (There has to be a but doesn't there!) The result of the
recipies we are using, from the booklet provided with the machine, are
proving too sweet for Jan's tastes. I've tried reducing the amount of
sugar but then the bread didn't rise as expected. We are being very
careful and following the recepies to the letter. Experimentation can
come later. So can anyone tell us some basics of how we get good
flavourful bread without it being too sweet? Or is this the price for
home made bread?

The ones we have tried so far are:

Basic white bread

water 1 1/2 cups
milk powder 4 tbsp
oil 4 "
sugar 3 "
salt 2 tsp
flour 4 cups
yeast 1 1/4 tsp


Brown bread

water 1 1/2 cups
milk powder 3 tbsp
oil 3 "
sugar 4 "
salt 2 tsp
flour 4 cups
yeast 1 1/2 tsp


Sandwich Loaf

water 1 1/3 cups
butter 2 tbsp
salt 1 tsp
milk powder 2 tbsp
sugar 3 1/2 tbsp
flour 4 cups
yeast 1 tsp

ian dedic

I found all the bread machine recipes
that come with the machines are way too sweet, I think they're based on
American tastes
rather than European, (all right British) ones, whenever I have bought
white bread in the US it has always been very sweet.

I find that each breadmachine has it's own best recipe, so a little
experimentation
and a few bricks must be expected, but if you persevere, you will get a good
result.

Here's what I use in my Prima ABM6

1 cup water (slightly warm for preference)
2 tbsp olive oil (can use 2 tbsp butter but add about 1tbsp more water if
you do this)
2tsp sugar
1tsp salt

3cups white breadmaking flour (Allinsons, or hovis or suchlike)
2tsp yeast

use basic white cycle if using ordinary yeast like Allinson's in the little
tin or fastbake with the very finely divided dried yeast
(fast acting dried yeast).

You may need to adjust the flour to water ratio to get a good springy dough,
it depends on things like brand of flour, freshness
etc, the dough needs to be in a single ball, and soft but not sticky to the
touch. If you check it after 5 minutes kneading, you should be able to
correct for this. If the dough feels right,and still doesn't rise enough,
try a little more yeast and/or a little less salt.

I also find a teaspoon of lemon juice helps improve the rise of the dough,
it adjusts the acidity of
the water (I live in a hard water area) but allow for the extra liquid in
the recipe.

Hope this helps....(but don't blame me if you bake a brick.... I've baked
enough to build a small wall!)
It is worth it in the end.

You could also try just making the dough and finishing it in the oven, so as
you can feel
what's right.

Good luck!

Hils


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limeyno1

I use a similar recipe and perhaps my taste is different than Jan's but I
don't find this sweet. Mind you, I just use the dough cycle for this and
make rolls or 2 loaves. I'm sure the sugar could be cut to 1 Tb and I use
dry egg powder instead of an egg and found no difference in results.

Your recipe calls for milk powder which will sweeten a lot. I don't use any
oil either as I don't need any extra fat.
I used to add 4 tb gluten, but have found it's not necessary in my recipe.
BTW, usually when I make this it rises almost to the ceiling of my
breadmaker, so that's another reason I bake it in pans or as rolls.

* Exported from MasterCook *

Helen's Kaiser Rolls or Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Abm Easy
Yeastbreads

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 Egg
:water to make
1 1/2 cups
1 1/2 ts Salt
2 tb Sugar
4 c A/P flour
2 ts Quick yeast

Beat egg in a 2 cup measure and add water to 1 1/2 cups. Mix well
and pour into ABM pan. To the pan, add salt, sugar, flour, gluten
and yeast.

Put pan in machine on dough cycle. Can be set for delay. When cycle
is completed make sure it is very well risen! I let mine rise a good
4 inches above the pan almost to the ceiling of my abm. If mine
isn't risen as high as I want, I put the pan in a very warm oven about
100*
until it reaches the proper amount of rising.

Punch down well!

Ok, from here you can make a very large loaf of bread or 12-13 rolls.

For bread I use a pan that is 13" long, 4" wide and 2 1/2" deep.

For rolls I weigh out my dough to 75-80 g per roll and shape as
desired.

Let rise until more than double in size about 90 minutes. Bake at 350
F until done, 15-20 minutes.

Alternately, you can make the dough in a mixer with a dough hook or by
hand. Recipe by Helen Peagram

Brown & Serve Dinner Rolls

In a large bowl thoroughly mix 4 cups flour, sugar, salt and
undissolved yeast.

Gradually add water at 120-130 to dry ingredients and beat 2 minutes at
medium speed of
electric mixer, scraping bowl occasionally. Add egg.

Stir in enough additional flour to make a soft dough.

Turn out onto lightly floured board, knead until smooth and elastic,
about 8 to 10 minutes. Place in greased bowl, turning to grease top

Cover; let rise in warm place, free from draft, until doubled in bulk,
about 1 hour.

Punch dough down, turn out onto lightly floured board. Divide dough
into 4 equal pieces.

Proceed according to directions (below) for desired shapes. Cover;
let rise in warm place, free from draft, until almost doubled in
bulk, about 45 minutes.

Bake at 275°F. 20 to 25 minutes, or until rolls just start to change
color. Cool in pans or on sheets 20 minutes. Remove from pans or
sheets and finish cooling on wire racks. Wraptightly in plastic bags
and refrigerate up to 1 week.

Just before serving, place rolls on un-greased baking sheet. Bake at
400F. 10 to 12 minutes, or until golden brown. If desired, brush with
melted Margarine.

Bowknots: Roll each piece to a 12 x 6-inch rectangle. Cut into 12
(1-inch) strips. Tie strips into knots, leaving

a loose loop in center. Place on greased baking sheets about 2 inches
apart.

Curlicues: Roll each piece to a 12 x 9-inch rectangle. Cut into
12(1-inch) strips. Hold one end of each strip firmly and wind dough
loosely to form coil; tuck end firmly underneath. Place on greased
baking sheets about 2 inches apart.

Muffin Rolls: Divide each piece into 12 equal pieces. Shape each
piece into a smooth round ball. Place in large greased muffin cups
(2½ x 1¼-inches). From Fleischmann's

MM by Helen Peagram

wildelin

You can simply reduce the sugar to 1Tb.
Note that a Tb of honey is sweeter than that of sugar.

rina

Welcome to a world of fun baking and wide hips... *grin*

White bread doesn't have to be that sweet... try reducing the sugar to 2
tablespoons or even 1 1/2...

here's one that's less sweet and a tiny bit healthier.

Rina

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* Exported from MasterCook *

Southern Bread (white Bread)

Recipe By :Posted to Bread Machine Recipe club 5/9/03
Serving Size : 17 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Bread - White Bread Machine


Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 1/8 Cups warm water
3 cups bread flour
2 tablespoons Powdered Milk
2 tablespoons wheat germ
1 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon sugar
1 tablespoon butter
1 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast

Place all of the ingredients in your machines fully assembled pan and in the
order specified in your user's guide. Select the basic or white cycle and
press start. After the first 10 minutes of kneading check the dough
consistency. It should form a smooth round ball that is slightly tacky to
the touch. If need be adjust the dough consistency by adding 1 tablespoon of
water or flour at a time until the dough reaches the proper consistency.

Yield:
"1 1/2 Lb Loaf"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per serving: 105 Calories (kcal); 1g Total Fat; (12% calories from fat); 3g
Protein; 19g Carbohydrate; 3mg Cholesterol; 137mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 1 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 0 Fat; 0
Other Carbohydrates

NOTES : This fluffy white bread recipe has been a favorite in the southern
United States. It's excellent sandwich bread.

Very tall in my 9x5 pan ... try the 10" next time

And another...


* Exported from MasterCook *

Potato Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Bread Bread - White
Bread Machine

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3/4 Cup Water (use Potato Water)
2 1/2 Cups Bread Flour
1/2 Cup Mashed Potatoes
1 Teaspoon Salt
1 Tablespoon Sugar
1 1/2 Tablespoons Butter
1 1/2 Teaspoons Instant Yeast

add ingredients in order suggested by bread machine manufacturer

Source:
"Hitachi Home Bakery II Cookbook"
Yield:
"1 1/2 Pounds"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per serving: 95 Calories (kcal); 2g Total Fat; (15% calories from fat); 3g
Protein; 17g Carbohydrate; 3mg Cholesterol; 160mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 1 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 0 Fat; 0
Other Carbohydrates

NOTES : This recipe should not be used on delay timer

Adn a third one:


* Exported from MasterCook *

Foolproof White Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Bread - to Try Bread - White
Bread Machine

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 cup Water -- warm
1 Egg
2 Tablespoons Oil
3 cups Flour -- bread, If desired, replace 1 c bread flour
with semolina flour.
1 Teaspoon Salt
1 1/2 Teaspoons Sugar
1 1/2 Teaspoons Dough enhancer -- optional
1 3/4 Teaspoons Yeast


Bring all ingredients to room temperature and pour into bakery, in correct
order for your machine. Select "white bread" and push Start.

Note: In hot, humid weather, use 1/8 c less water.


Source:
"Posted to alt.bread.recipes by Sylvia Steiger, www.SteigerFamily.com"
Yield:
"1 1/2 Pounds"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per serving: 143 Calories (kcal); 3g Total Fat; (18% calories from fat); 4g
Protein; 25g Carbohydrate; 16mg Cholesterol; 184mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 1 1/2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 1/2
Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates

rbasan7

Try replacing the sugar with glucose at half the dosage.
Another way is to use malt syrup at half to a third of the sugar dosage.

Ditto with the brown loaf


increase the yeast 1/2 tsp and increase the salt by 1 tap.Replace the
sugar with glucose or honey at half to a third of the dosage of the
sugar.

Another general alternative is to remove all the sugars from the
recipes but replace it instead with 1-2 tsp of diastatic malt syrup.
As you do not desire sweetness then the most basic functionality of
sugar as yeast food can be provided by the diastatic malt.
In addition , the reduction sugar level was suggested for the same
reason.
Good Luck!
Roy

sb

Hi!

I see from your address you are in UK like me. I'm not suprised you find
bread too sweet as ours does not normally have sugar in it! It is done for
American tastes I think. I have baked bread for years and used to have a
bread machine (these days I bake too much to bother with one and use a
kitchenaid). This recipe is for a Zojirushi that made quite a large loaf,
over 2lbs, so you may want to cut it down in size if you have a smaller
capacity. I always used the rapid button on my machine, but you will have to
do what you think best in that direction!

Teaspoons are LEVEL!

15fl oz water
1.5 lb bread flour
2 teaspoons salt
1 1/2 teaspns yeast (the stuff in sachets, or if you are near waitrose,
they sell it in larger va***n foil packs for about 90p, Doves farm Quick
yeast and you can measure it out rather than use part of a sachet.

Make sure your liquid measurements are as accurate as your scales, as this
really can be the difference between success and failure. Once you have
found a jug that works, stick to it! I once had a real disaster with a pyrex
jug that had incorrect measurements on it.

No sugar is needed to make bread rise. Flour from a store that has a quick
turnover is best, to avoid stuff that has been hanging around in damp
conditions.
I expect it will take a few loaves to get it just right, so do keep trying.
That recipe is just a basic one that has worked well for me in machines, but
each tends to have differences in the length of cycle. PS DO NOT KEEP
OPENING the machine to peep! I know it's tempting but once you are satisfied
with the consistancy of the dough, you should let it do its own thing or you
will ruin your loaf!

SB

mike barnard

Thanks for the replies. Lots of ideas to try now. No sugar, no milk,
a bare bones recepie... will be fun experimenting!