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1 6th June 09:29
bob prohaskas usenet account
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


How did bakers of old keep bread from sticking in the pans? The only
reliable method I know requires putting fat of some sort on the pan,
ideally dusting the fat with flour. Works well, but needing fat to
make bread sort of undermines the principle of simple bread as only
flour, water, yeast and salt, to my way of thinking. The pans are
the smallish aluminum type, nothing fancy.

Dusting the dough liberally with flour before putting it in the pan
seemed to work for a while, but after 2-3 batches the loaves started to
stick again. Whence I resumed greasing and flouring the pans.

Somebody, somewhere, must have solved this problem. I can't believe
even a small commercial baker could afford the labor grease each pan.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska
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2 6th June 09:29
dee randall
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


I saw my grandmother make the same bread receipe year-after-year in a
coal-fired wood stove and probably used the cheapest pans one could buy (or
possess thru hand-me-downs). She would also make what we called 'hot rolls'
occasionally which were high and soft. I never knew if the hot rolls were
the same recipe/formulae. Since we had dairy cows, I would assume that she
used milk in every bread recipe. She liberally greased her pans. I don't
recall flour being used over/under the grease; but not to say that she did
or didn't.

If I had no other choice but to use aluminum pans, I would do the same:
liberally grease them (no flour).

Dee Dee
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3 6th June 09:29
dick margulis
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Okay, Bob. Reality check.

For cakes, yes, grease and flour, definitely. For bread, it's one or the
other. But wait. There's more.

If you are making hearth breads (breads bakes directly on a stone
surface of some kind, or perhaps with the intercession of a piece of
baker's parchment), then you lubricate and de-stick-ify (the technical
term) with little ball bearings, in the form of cornmeal, farina, or the
like. I suppose liberal amounts of flour would work, too--or maybe not.

But if you are making a pan bread, then typically you grease the pan
liberally (more on this later) and don't count the calories (because,
really, you're not talking about a lot of fat per slice).

Industrial bakeries have machines that spray "release agent," whatever
that is, into the pans before the bread goes in. The pans themselves
have a seasoned surface. In the old days, manufacturers applied a
coating of whale oil to seal the surface; I have no idea what they use
nowadays, as I imagine even this limited use of whale oil has been
banned. But bread pans are seasoned much the way cast iron is
seasoned--apply the fat (whale oil or otherwise), heat the pan, allow to
cool, repeat--with the constraint that tin melts at 430 F and so bread
pans are seasoned at a lower temp than cast iron.

Commercial bakeries (as opposed to industrial bakeries) still grease
pans by hand. The oven man I used to work with did it this way: He
periodically brought in a white cotton knit rag from home (worn out
undershirt, laundered) and used it till it wore out. Every day when he
came in, he melted some lard in a No. 10 can in the oven. He dipped the
rag in the melted lard and thoroughly wiped the inside of every pan,
paying attention to the seams. He used the same method to grease all the
sheet pans we were going to need for the shift. Then he took a
one-inch-diameter round pastry brush and did all the muffin cups. My
guess is that he spent a total of 10 to 15 minutes a day greasing pans,
although it was a long time ago and I may be underestimating. It was
just part of the job, much as part of my job every day was going into
the storeroom and loading up half a ton of supplies on a cart and
emptying the bags into bins at my mixing bench. Didn't think much about
it, just did it.

As to your cheap aluminum pans, go ahead and use them if you want to.
I've never gotten very good results in them, but others say they are
happy with them. To me, it seems the kind of loaf they're intended for
is meatloaf, or maybe quick breads, not yeast bread. I much prefer a
dark pan. Aluminum is okay, but I like a traditional folded steel pan
better.
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4 6th June 09:29
john kecskes
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Hi

I have not needed to grease my bread tins for many years
I am talking about press steel and tinned commercial (Heavy) quality
bread tins, not the "L" cheepo" cake tin varieties,
using the right type of bread tins, do not require greasing, as matter
of fact the instruction ask you not to do it, or wash them, just wipe
them out with a damp cloth if it needs it, normally don't need to do
anything at all, except maybe clean up some of the spilled milk or
other topping you may put on your bread prier baking,
cheers, john
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5 6th June 09:29
bob prohaskas usenet account
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Many thanks to all for informative and entertaining replies, especially
this one. Maybe I should try some steel pans. I had the idea that
there must be a zero-labor way to inhibit sticking,
but evidently not. I'm no calorie counter but noticed that greasing pans
takes almost as long as forming the dough.

bob prohaska
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6 6th June 09:30
dick margulis
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Um, how do you form the dough?
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7 6th June 09:30
dee randall
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Another opinion re folded "black" steel pans; I'm not a fan of them. For
me, they need greasing and they rust if not thoroughly/thoroughly dried.

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Sonom...3839781&sr=1-4
is an example of aluminum covered-steel pan, but my pullman loaf pan is the
black steel kind, and I butter it to high heaven.

I've bought "black" heavy steel pans, but have discarded them along the
way. The cake/brownie/meatloaf type sure get scarred and then they really
do rust badly.

Now and then shopping at Kohl's or Ross, or TJ Max, I have picked up at
random a loaf pan which god-only-knows what it is made from, and I've got a
cherished one that I never grease. The same thing for a 9" round cake pan
that the cake will fall right out of; the bottom looks like an oily
multi-colored, water-in-oil glaze.

It is heaven to find one of these kinds of pans, but the aisles of loaf pans
are fraught with discards.

Dee Dee
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8 6th June 09:30
bob prohaskas usenet account
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Artisan bread this is not. 8-)

Mixing is done in a used Hobart N50, once the dough is out of the
bowl it's divided by eye, rolled into slugs(?) and put in the pans.
The pans go in the warm oven to rise, when they're up the oven
gets turned on. In hot weather rising and baking are done outdoors
in a modified gas grill.

The dough gets worked a little by hand, but not much.
Greasing the pans, in this very simple scheme, is a
step I'd happily avoid if I could.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska
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9 6th June 09:30
dick margulis
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


Well, that's not exactly a loaf, and I imagine you may have some problem
with crumb structure. You might see improvement if you took a few
seconds to shape a loaf using a more traditional method. See
http://abrfaq.info/faq/97. Scroll down to the heading "Scaling and
rounding." Skim that section (because it sounds like you can't be
bothered, but maybe you'll change your mind) and then read the next
section, "Resting and moulding."


You just have to learn to do it quickly and effortlessly. It really
doesn't take long. And you're making what, about four loaves at a time? Six?
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10 6th June 09:30
dan musicant
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Default keeping bread from sticking to pans


:I much prefer a
:dark pan. Aluminum is okay, but I like a traditional folded steel pan
:better.

My favorite bread pan is such a folded steel pan. Lately I'm not using
it, but a Breadman machine instead, which has a non-stick coating (my
next bread machine is likely to be a Panasonic, but that's a different
thread). When I used the steel pan I'd pour about 1/3 teaspoon of olive
oil (the cheap stuff from Costco) onto the bottom of the pan and spread
it all over any surface that might touch the dough with a finger.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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