r. fizek

Hi,

I am going to make a starter and was wondering if there is any preference to
using something tall and narrow like a jar vs. something shorter and less
deep, like a glass mixing bowl?

Tamara

mike avery

In all honestly, I suggest getting a known good starter. From a friend
if you can, and from the Friends of Carl if not. Surf over to
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/ They say it's free with a stamped
self addressed envelope, but I always encourage people to send them a
couple of bucks to cover their expenses.

Why do I suggest that people get a good starter when they embark on a
sourdough adventure? In the beginning, you don't know what a good
starter should look like, smell like, taste like or act like. And you
don't know how to maintain it if you accidentally do get a good
starter. Using a known good starter eliminates a lot of variables.

When you have some sourdough success under your belt, by all means, go
ahead and try to start a starter. I gotta tell you, I get more unhappy
emails about the pages on my web site (http://www.sourdoughhome.com)
that talk about starting a starter than from all the other pages
combined. So, please, do yourself a favor and get a good starter from
the get go. (Oh, please don't get the San Francisco Gold Rush starter.
I have never heard of anyone being happy with it.)

Oh, to answer your question, it really doesn't matter. The starter is
not, despite what many people tell you, caught from the air. The
micro-organisms are already on the flour in much higher concentration
than in the air. While you can catch a starter from the air, the odds
don't favor it. The low wide bowl is easier to mix things in, but
that's the only reason to favor one over the other.

Mike
--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

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barry harmon

I use a plastic bowl from IKEA, but there are a lot of them in the grocery
stores. Mine is 0.4L / 14 oz, but they have many other sizes..

Barry

retired vip

I don't understand why you think people can't handle the hard job of
starting their own sourdough starter. Mix flour and water and then
wait, what's hard about that? If they can't handle that arduous task,
why do you think they could reconstitute Carl's starter?

In fact to be sure that they really get Carl's starter, they would
have to use boiled water and sterilized flour to ensure that they only
grow the organisms that Carl's Friends sent to them. Much harder than
just taking potluck with their own flour.

Jack

retired vip

I'm using a wide-mouth, squat, glass pint jar that my wife had stored
away in the ba*****t. It has a glass lid and a wire bail to fasten
down the lid. It's supposed to have a rubber ring between to lid and
the jar for a seal but I'm not using it. I'm using it because the
price was right (free). My wife is using an old glass peanut butter
jar with a metal screw-top lid.

Use whatever you have. I'd stay away from plastic and aluminum but
anything else should be okay.

Jack

randall nortman

You'd think it would be easy, but rec.food.sourdough is littered with
requests for help culturing sourdough starters from scratch. Usually
the posters are following idiotic, superstitious procedures they found
somewhere or another (frequently in books that somebody actually got
paid to write), or if they found a good source of information, they
fail to follow even the simplest of directions. And when things go
wrong, instead of applying common sense, research, or experimentation,
they come crying to usenet gurus to tell them what to do.

Not that I'm saying it's hard to culture a starter from scratch. I've
done it more than once. But it's also easy to understand why the
gurus get tired of answering the same questions over and over again
and just tell people to go get Carl's starter. Here's a good rule of
thumb: If you're smart and dedicated enough to figure it out on your
own, go for it. If you're not, then you should probably just get
Carl's starter or find a friendly local sourdough baker to help you
out.

Of course, even then you need to choose a vessel to grow it in, which
is what the OP in this thread asked. The answer is that it doesn't
really matter. Best to cover it well enough to keep dust or at least
insects out of it, contrary to many recommendations to leave it
exposed to the elements. Don't cover it so tightly that gas can't
escape. And don't forget to sacrifice a goat twice a day to keep your
starter healthy and vibrant, otheriwse the sourgods might damn you to
an eternity of brick-dense loaves smelling of toilets and dirty socks.

--
Randall

mike avery

In a word, experience. I get more letters from people who are having
trouble starting their starters than any other topic. I get about 5 to
10 emails a day through my web page. I try to answer all of them
quickly. I do answer all of them. Right after starting a starter the
next topic is maintaining a starter.

Is it hard? No. Is riding a bicycle hard? No. Did you skin your
knees a few times when you learned how to ride? Probably. Did you give
up? Some kids do. It's just not worth the pain. I think that having a
known good starter eliminates some of the skinned knees of getting a
starter going.

If you haven't worked with sourdough, you have no idea what a good
starter should look, smell, feel or taste like. If you get one, you
won't recognize it. It IS an issue for many people. I don't hear from
the people who have no trouble starting a starter, just the ones who
need help and are motivated enough to ask for it.

The worst situation I see is someone who has never baked anything that
hasn't come out of a box or a tube and who wants to start with
sourdough. When you try to do something, the more times you use the
word "new" the higher the chance of failure. I am a big believer in
baby steps. I suggest those folks try some yeasted recipes I have in a
introductory baking class on my web site. Once they can knead dough,
once they have an idea that dough can rise, once they know what dough
should feel like, then it's time to move to sourdough. based on
feedback from correspondents, that mini-class has been very helpful to a
good number of people.


Where starters come from is largely a matter of the concentration of
organisms. While there are orders of magnitude more critters on flour
than in the air, there are also many orders of magnitude more critters
in the sample that the Friends of Carl send out than in the flour you
buy. As a result, I am fairly sure that when people follow the
instructions, they are getting Carl's starter. It isn't necessary to
sterilize the flour.

Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

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I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. -- Isaac Asimov

mike avery

It's interesting, but I have yet to find people who are willing to admit
they aren't smart. And talented. And gifted. On average, most people
think they are above average.

Many moons ago, the company I worked for got a then brand new laser
printer. It was as big as a desk. And it had some shakedown problems.
My office mate and I was in charge of resolving the issues, one of which
was paper jams. So, I put a sign on it, "If you don't know what you're
doing, and you have trouble with the printer, please call us to help
you." NO ONE could admit that they knew nothing about this then new
piece of technology. After two days of worsening problems, I came up
with a new sign. "We are still evaluating this printer. We need to
keep track of any malfunctions. You are welcome to use it, but if jams
or misbehaves, please call us so we can log the problems and report them
to the vendor." That one worked. The first time around people had to
admit they didn't know what they were doing to get help. The second
time, it was a vendor report thing.

Mike
..
--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
He had the ring
He had the flat
But she felt his chin
And that
Was that
Burma-Shave

nick cramer

Gee, Jack. Thanks a million!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

boron elgar

RFS is also littered with the charred bodies of newbies who "dare" to
ask such basic questions, too.


Of course, all those fancy and often Famous Name cookbooks are where
they may have gotten their basics and pray tell, how are they to know
nonsense from reality when even the "simplest directions" vary from
book to book and "authoritative" web page to web page.


Boo-hoo...although there are many caring and conscientious posters,
there are some real life assholes over in rfs who consider themselves
as gurus and beholders of the Word of God and too snotty to advise
those who have basic questions.

Usenet should be a place to ask questions and should be a place that
those who do not know everything can come to for advice from those who
do think they know everything If rfs is only a place for pros, then
quit whining and quit bitching and get the damn thing moderated.

Oh, I am weeping for the poor, tired gurus who aren't smart enough and
patient enough to take the time to share their religious teachings
with the uninitiated.

Carl's starter is impeccable, of course, but as was mentioned, still
requires care and feeding and has instructions available (and gosh,
even those have been changed over the years).

Notice a paragraph from Brian Dixon in the starter portion of
sourdough FAQ:

ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/food/sourdough/starters
"I've been baking for 23+ years and most of that time has included
baking with sourdough. I've started many starters from wild yeast
found in the air of the area where I lived, and have started and
restarted lots of starters from other sources, i.e. dry, fresh,
seemingly-dead, etc. And I have also helped a number of other people
get their starters going ... usually right from the air in which they
live. The following is a summary of my learnings and I hope that
it's helpful to you as you go through the process of starting your
starter, or just plain keeping your own good starter going."

Imagine that...someone who has gone out of his way to set down his
learnings so that others might benefit from them.


Yeah, if the goats were sacrificed, a goodly percentage of the rfs
posters would go up in smoke, especially if goat hindquarters are
preferred on the altar.

Boron