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1 17th July 01:15
ron
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


Here is a list of the major Russian bread websites (around 90). Some
have English sections and most have photos, so they may be useful even
to those who don't know Russian.

I got the list from http://www.kolobok.biz, but that site is down down and I
had to use the cached pages via Google.

Anyway, it might be interesting just to look around some of the sites.

http://www.kolobok.biz
http://www.spp.ru/
http://www.kbkprostor.ru/
http://www.rhp.ru
http://www.dbkk.com.ua/
http://www.hlebushko.ru
http://www.krashleb.da.ru
http://rybinskchleb.ru/
http://www.proletarets.ru/
http://www.hleb.pskov.ru/
http://www.penzahleb.ru/
http://www.volynhlib.com/
http://www.mantinga.ru/
http://orenhlebkomb.narod.ru/
http://www.moscowbread.ru/
http://www.net.md/franzeluta/
http://www.tsesnaastyk.kz/
http://www.hlebprom.mv.ru/
http://kemhleb.narod.ru/
http://hlebopek.smolensk.ru/
http://www.goodhleb.ru/
http://www.ntkvent.sky.ru/
http://www.karavay.spb.ru/
http://www.sloenok.ru/
http://www.anay.ru/users/hlebzavod6/
http://www.kacec.ru/
http://www.sibbereg.ru/
http://www.hlebprom.ru/
http://www.c-xk.ru/
http://internetelite.ru/bkk/
http://www.murmancom.ru/indastrial/hlebopek/
http://peko.netfirms.com/
http://karavay.velikiynovgorod.ru/
http://www.vladkhleb.ru/
http://www.mukomol.ru/
http://www.aktobe.kz/ramazan/
http://www.ehk.e-burg.ru/
http://www.gosniihpko.webzone.ru/
http://lemh.astranet.ru/
http://www.kubanhleb.ru/
http://karavay.velikiynovgorod.ru/
http://www.vladkhleb.ru/
http://www.mukomol.ru/
http://www.aktobe.kz/ramazan/
http://www.ehk.e-burg.ru/
http://www.gosniihpko.webzone.ru/
http://lemh.astranet.ru/
http://www.kubanhleb.ru/
http://www.ihz1.ru/
http://web.vrn.ru/hleb2/
http://www.hleb6.ru/
http://xleb6.narod.ru/
http://www.moskbread.ru/hist.html
http://www.bakery2.ru/
http://www.chebarcul.ru/firms/hleb.shtml
http://www.bread.com.ua/
http://www.omskindustry.ru/hlebnik/index.htm
http://mars.omskcity.com/
http://www.agrocomplex.kuban.ru/
http://www.olf.ua
http://www.agrokuban.ru/
http://tonushleb.narod.ru/
http://www.sibagro.ru/
http://www.borodinsky.com/index-r.html
http://www.topcatalog.ru/15/
http://agromage.com
http://www.kolobok.biz/resource/
http://www.matza.ru/
http://www.owp.ru/bakery/bakery.html
http://www.breadbusiness.ru/scdp/page
http://www.fadr.msu.ru/rin/
http://www.agrorus.ru/
http://www.rusagribiz.com/
http://www.museum.ru/museum/bread/
http://www.xlebzavod.ru
http://www.okhp3.ru/
http://www.yauza-hleb.ru/
http://www.vladhleb.com/
http://ospp.by.ru/
http://www.shadrinsk.zaural.ru/~tdx/
http://www.moskhleb.ru/
http://www.hleb.tvcom.ru/
http://www.white-bread.ru/
http://www.chelny-hleb.tatarstan.ru/
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2 17th July 01:21
hofer
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Posts: 1
Default List of major Russian bread websites


See also http://www.niixleba.spb.ru, especially
http://www.niixleba.spb.ru/yslygi.htm

Last time I ordered (and got!) from Russia several books on bread
including y2005 9th edition of Auermans "Technology...". I read it now
comparing it from times to times with the y1948 edition you posted as
..pdf in the past.
Cordial and sincere thanks for inspiring me into Russian bread with all
the info you posted at the group consistently from early 90's. Reading
the archives on this subject about 3 years ago excited me and
challenged for a quest for perfect Borodinsky loaf.

I have posted two threads on Borodinsky bread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough/browse_thread/thread/9bd1780a966dc939/77e30d99c78dcf08#77e30d99c78dcf08

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough/browse_thread/thread/e04fc11aeb682612/7653e802d4dca2bc#7653e802d4dca2bc

It would be very interesting to know your opinion.
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3 17th July 01:23
ron
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


Actually, I bought the 9th edition of Auermann and I was comparing the
two editions.

The 1948 edition is actually more interesting, since they have removed
all of the recipes from the new edition. The reason is simple: they
have now published the recipes as a separate book, which I saw when I
visited the bread bookstore at the Krasnosel'skaya Metro in Moscow. It
is a very small book, but very expensive (around $20. US), because
everyone wants the official GOST recipes, which used to be included
freee as part of the Auerman book. I think that this shows us that the
change in the profit motive from pre-Soviet to post-Soviet days. I'm
glad I have the earlier edition of Auerman.

I have not had a chance to look at your threads yet.

Ron
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4 17th July 01:23
ron
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


By the way, here's another Russian bread freebie on the Internet:

http://www.neomoloko.ru/biblio/book/bogomolov/bogomolov_03.pdf

There are a total of 10 Bogomolov food chapters (01.pdf-10.pfd), but
only 03.pdf is about bread.

Here's an Australian bread freebie in English (but not sourdough):

http://burnsphilpgroup.binarybusiness.com.au/docs/Bread_and_Breadmaking.pdf

(See also: http://burnsphilpgroup.binarybusiness.com.au/education.html)

Ron
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5 17th July 01:23
dave bell
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


Looks intriguing...
"New milk"? Site titled roughly "Everything on milk and milk products"
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6 17th July 01:24
hofer
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


I think the 1948 edition only has an historical value. Amazing, how
much was known about making bread that years but the last edition is
really state of the art. Concerning recipes, they are a way
"old-fashioned", an example is 2-days and more Rizhskij bread recipe.
For the recipes I can recommend the book:

"Sbornik receptur na hleb i hlebobulochnye izdelija (sost. Ershov P. S.
)" - 192 s.
"Sbornik soderzhit receptury i fiziko-himicheskie pokazatelja na hleb
iz muki rzhanoj i pshenichnoj, bulochnye, sdobnye, baranochnye,
suharnye i dieticheskie izdelija, luchshie nacional'nye sorta hleba.
Obshhee kolichestvo receptur sostavljaet 259. Krome togo, v sbornik
voshli 6 receptur i tehnologicheskih instrukcij na hleb soglasno GOSTam
1986 g. Sbornik javljaetsja objazatel'nym dlja vseh predprijatij,
zanimajushhihsja hlebopekarnoj dejatel'nost'ju, nezavisimo ot form
sobstvennosti, sistem i vedomstv."
Costs about $7 (before s/h). I can send you .jpg first 33 pages with
the 6 above-mentioned tech. instructions.

Yeah, profit motive. I wanted 3 books including "Sbornik...", from
http://www.niixleba.spb.ru/yslygi.htm
They asked for $200. It looks like very developed profit motive.

I bought two more books but hadn't time to read them yet:
Tehnologija hleba, konditerskih i makaronnyh izdelij, Puchkova L.I.,
Polandova R.D., Matveeva I.V., Giord, 2005, 559

Tehnologija hlebopekarnogo proizvodstva: Uchebnik, Cyganova T.B.,
ProfObrIzdat, 2002, 432

What kind of bread you bake now?
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7 17th July 01:25
ron
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


Hi,

The sentence in the new edition of Auerman that annoyed me is on p.
200, and reads:

"Детальное описание этих способов
применительно к отдельным видам и
сортам ржаного и ржано-пшеничного
хлеба содержится в сборнике
технологических инструкций и в
технологическом справочнике. Поэтому
здесь приводится весьма краткое
описание в качестве примера лишь
нескольких основных способов
приготовления ржаного теста."

Translation:
"A detailed description of these methods with respect to individual
types and sorts of rye and rye-wheat bread is contained in the
collection of technological instructions and in the technological
directory. Therefore, only a very brief description is given here as an
example of several of the major types of rye dough preparation."

I also picked up copies of Cyganova and Puchkova. Puchkova is going to
be multi-volume, but now only volume I on bread is out.

I would like to see the jpg's by Ershov. You can send it to me at
rff000@gmail.com. Thanks!

After returning from my month in Russia, my culture was not in good
shape and I made the mistake of trying to bake by feel, instead of
weighing the ingredients. The first results all were inedible and went
into the garbage can, which I hate to do.

I started a new culture and decided to follow the Royter recipe for
Borodinsky bread. The result was not bad at all! My adaptation of his
recipe for around 500 grams of flour is as follows:

I. Zavarka.
100 grams rye flour
270 grams water
1 TB kvas concentrate (koncentrat dlja susla xlebnogo kvasa)
(substitute molasses)
1 tsp coriander

II. Starter
200 grams of starter at 75% hydration

Add starter to zavarka when zavarka reaches 85 F. Ferment for 4 hours.

III. Dough
Fermented zavarka
205 grams rye flour
80 grams wheat flour
30 grams sugar
1 tsp salt

Bake at around 325 F. for 1.5 hours.

I'll post the original and give the URL a little later.

Thanks,

Ron
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8 17th July 01:25
ron
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


I have now posted the original Royter Borodinsky recipe at:

http://www.indiana.edu/~pollang/royter_borodinsky.pdf
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9 17th July 01:26
hofer
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Default List of major Russian bread websites


Excellent translation! But I really think that, how to say it,
ideologically, the recipes should be at another place, and official
"Sbornik" is the naturally appropriate one. I am reading the Auerman's
book now and have a feeling that it is the best book of this kind (for
professionals and students). Dan Wing's book also has no recipes chapter.

What is your culture?

That is a point I'd want to discuss! It is in the threads mentioned
above.
There should not be any concentrate of any kind or molasses at the
stage of "zavarka" in any rye "zavarka" based ("zavarnyh") breads! The
Royter recipe calls for "krasnyj solod": "red malt", that is rye malt.
Without rye malt (or barley malt: "belyj solod" as for Rizhskij bread)
and their amylazes and keeping the mixture at the temperatures of about
62-65C there is no sense for zavarka stage at all!

Waiting for your comments very much!

Leonid
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10 17th July 01:27
ron
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Posts: 1
Default List of major Russian bread websites


That's easy. It's just whole rye flour and filtered water. Now it's in
very good condition.


This is a question that I have thought about many times. I have grown
my own rye malt for flavor, but I always heated it to make it
non-diastatic. The reason is this: once I used a diastatic malt syrup
and it converted all of the flour's starch to sugary liquid and ruined
the dough. I thought that it would be too difficult for me to determine
the "strength" of diastatic malt and that if I used diastatic malt in
the zavarka, the dough would have a high probability of converting into
a liquid sugar and would get ruined. So, I tried to get the malt flavor
and the other benefits of a zavarka, but without the diastatic activity
of the malt.

You ask an interesting question: is there any sense in using a zavarka
at all if it has no diastatic malt, since saccharization is one of the
reasons given for using a zavarka in the first place! I am not a
chemist and cannot give you a specialized answer. However, I can give
you some examples of books which recommend the use of a zavarka both
with and also WITHOUT saccharization. Firstly, the booklet Domashnij
Xleb gives a home recipe with a zavarka and no malt. The reason for it
is: "Заварной хлеб вкуснее простого
ржаного, кисло-сладкого вкуса и долго
не черствеет." (Bread with a zavarka is tastier than the
simple sweet and sour taste of rye and doesn't get stale for a long
time.) You can argue that the author of this booklet is not an expert
and does not really know what he is talking about.

However, a recent specialized book, which you mentioned, also says that
you can have a zavarka both with and without malt saccharization. I
have in mind Puchkova's new 2005 book, Texnologija xleba. On pp. 234-5
she talks about the saccharized and non-saccharized types of zavarka,
as follows:

1. Non-saccharized. She says that you get some saccharization even
without the addition of malt: "Считается, что
клейстеризованный крахмал заваренной
муки в достаточной степени будет
осахариваться амилазами муки в тесте
при брожении и в начальном периоде
выпечки без специальной стадии
осахаривания заварки." (It's considered that the
gelatinized starch of the scaled flour will be saccharized to a
significant degree by flour's amylases during fermentation and during
the initial period of baking, without a special stage of saccharization
of the zavarka.)

2. Saccharized zavarka. Both fermented (red malt) and non-fermented
(white malt) types are listed.

3. Highly saccharized zavarka. New developed (artificial?) malt
preparations are used.

4. Saline zavarka. (p. 236) The recipe's salt is diluted with the hot
water that is added at the zavarka stage.

5. Bitter zavarka. Hops are added to the zavarka water.

So, it looks like there are many kinds of zavarka.

By the way, I have some very active malt syrup from a Korean store and
I can always sprout active malt. How do you control it? Do you follow a
rule such as adding only one teaspoon per kilo of flour, which I have
heard? Did you ever get dough which was ruined by completely changing
to liquid sugar?

If you do not yet have the Puchkova pages or you would like a scan of
the Domashnij Xleb page, let me know and I can scan them.

Ron
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