tungesh

Chicken in the Rogan style


1 roasting chicken, jointed into 8 pieces
Vegetable oil for frying
250ml butter ghee
1 litre water
1.5 teaspoons salt
125ml garlic water
8 green cardamoms, bruised
4 cloves
5 teaspoons turmeric powder
2 tablespoons fried onion paste
4 teaspoons Kashmiri red chilli powder
0.5 teaspoon saffron pounded and added to 2 tablespoons warm water
1 cup dry ****scomb flowers, heated with 125ml hot water
0.5 teaspoon finely ground black pepper

Heat the vegetable oil in a Karhai (Indian Wok) and when it is hot add the
chicken and quickly fry until it is becoming light brown. Then remove the
chicken draining on kitchen paper. Place to one side while the recipe proceeds.

Heat the butter ghee in a heavy bottomed pan. When hot put in the bruised
cardamons and the cloves and gently fry them until they release their aroma into
the room. Take the pan from the heat and sprinkle in 1 tablespoon of water, put
lid on pan and allow to steam for a minute or two.

Return the pan to the heat and stir in the turmeric powder, fried onion paste
and kashmiri chilli powder and cook the rawness out of the spices. Add the
garlic water and continue to cook for a few more minutes.

Place in the browned chicken and water and bring to a rolling boil then reduce
until contents remain simmering.

Over a medium flame cover the pan and gently cook the chicken until it is tender,
then add the ****scomb flower extract, saffron water and black pepper powder
and stir it to mix.

Bring contents to a rapid boil and reduce the gravy then serve.


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bryan wallwork

and is a direct rip-off from 'Wazwaan', a book from Silverdale books
ISBN: 1-85605-624-4

I'm not sure whether the poster is posting here for our benefit, or some
other reason. There are a number of points which should be raised. In the
original recipe, only the cloves are hot oil extacted, then cold water is
added to stop the extraction process and stop the cloves from burning,
though the process would work for cardamom (and cassia and mace). However,
throwing cold water into hot oil is very dangerous, and not really
necessary, just reduce the temperature a little, and prolong the extraction.
Secondly, I have never seen ****'s comb flowers for sale in an Indian shop.
I have tried extracting from fresh ones, without much success. I add red
colouring (E124/E102) if for adults, or nothing if for younger people if I
want to colour the food. Thirdly, the dish cannot be called 'rogan style',
as rogan josh is not a style of cooking. The original is a variation on a
korma, but uses lamb, and very different spicing. This recipe has been
developed for chicken, but the original lamb fat is missing, from which the
name of the dish is derived.
In the book mentioned above, it is called saffron-flavoured chicken,
although they give the Indian name as Kukkur rogan josh.
Cheers
Wazza

bryan wallwork

I think Elaine first mentioned this book, and I was lucky enough to pick up
a copy shortly after. Most of the recipes are very unusual, but put together
by the wazas of Kashmir, so it could be that all other Indian cookery books
are not from this region. The brothers do look as though they are from
Pakistan, but what with the disputes in K&J at the moment, that may not be
too important. I have deliberated on the recipes for some time, and still
cannot make my mind up as to whether they are good recipes, just what the
wazas cook (as in traditional, handed down from generation to generation, in
which case, why tell everyone?) or they are just taking the Michael. I must
have tried some of the recipes, but have not made notes, so maybe I haven't.
cheers
Wazza

Have you tried any, Elaine?

tungesh

0 and is a direct rip-off from 'Wazwaan', a book from Silverdale books


Hello Mr Wallwork
Thank you for your correspondance.
The recipe that I had posted for your members did not have a name in the book in


rogan style. Also the quantities are different and I have tried to make
amendments for a pinch and a about half a cup etc.
You are quite correct in a number of positions that you state. Extraction of the
oils from cloves and cardamoms to flavour the cooking medium can be prolonged
and if time is not of a problem the oil or ghee can be allowed to cool and then
strained for use at a later time, however the sprinkling of water onto hot ghee
is commonplace, most especially in busy kitchen. In the hands of an experienced
Indian cook the practice is not dangerous as the water used is minimum.
The ****ccomb flower dried is readily available here and access to it poses no
problem. It is most unusual for us to add unnatural colours to our food however
I have been informed that it is quite commonplace in the west for this to happen.
We would think this an adulteration as the heart of Indian food is natural
produce.
Maybe Mr Wallwork you will accept a challenge from me and submit for your
members a dish of Indian origin that you have not taken from a book. I can give
you many family recipes that you will not see in the west if you so require.
Also maybe you can advise why the word Kukkur is used in the recipe as the
ingredient is not used.

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elaine jones

Quoting from message <c544p6$4vk$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
posted on 8 Apr 2004 by Bryan Wallwork
I would like to add:

over a year ago I think.


I haven't any other books of Kashmiri recipes and have not gone to the extent
of wading through general books looking for recipes to compare.


"Traditional" as in regional restaurant/commercial rather than home?

There's a lot of use of fried onion paste and garlic water

No - but I'm considering doing a "workaround" on the fried onion paste and
garlic water!!!

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elaine jones

Quoting from message <200449-10273-959371@foorum.com>
posted on 9 Apr 2004 by Tungesh
I would like to add:

Does it have any flavour/smell - other than a general dried flower one?
I've debated growing it as a potplant and drying the flowerheads


Yes - just look at the colour of some ready prepared "mushy peas", a most
unnatural green! (but it could be a natural substance)

Many processed foods contain "permitted colouring" which may be either
natural or synthetic. I don't buy many processed foods and have not made
a study of various contents lists so I cannot say whether the majority are
natural or synthetic, there are many natural substances which have 'e' numbers
and would, on a superficial reading, appear to be "unnatural".

I don't suppose he can - since he didn't write the book.

Taking a look on Google I found two translations of "kukkur"

1) a form of hemp
2) dog

....

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bryan wallwork

and for yours

does this mean you are claiming it as your own family's, or that a family
member has forgotten to jot down from where they got it from? it is
(virtually verbatim) a copy from the book, unless the book writters are your
family, or the authors took it from them!!

As it is a version of Rogan Gosht (I believe the word is josh meaning heat,
though Camelia Panjabi suggests it should be translated as 'intensity') It
is not 'gosht, meaning meat, and rogan does not mean red.


NO! This recipe is for a 'rogan josh made with chicken, with spices that
compliment the chicken, it is NOT as recipe for lamb which just used chicken
instead. Those recipes use other spices and ingredients.

Also the quantities are different and I have tried to make


Well, the book is virtually the same !!!!!!

No! the procedure has a hazard associated with it, what you are saying is
that in the hands of an experienced cook (whether Indian, or not!!) the risk
MAY be less! though in a busy kitchen I would have thought the risk increased!


I have not found this ingredient in London or Manchester or Leeds/Bradford.
Although the flower could be said to be natural, it is not derived from a
'normal' ingredient, such as saffron, or chilli, or tomato. And it is only
added for the colour. And from the photos I have, far too much colour for
me. It looks unnatural!

require.

I am afraid I cannot accept your challenge, as I have no recipe from Indian
friends which were developed in India which are anything out of the
ordinary, lovely though some of them are, but I am sure I, along with many
on this ng will be interested to see 'new' recipes which are not from books,
and use local ingredients.


I don't know what you mean by kukkur, but in the book referenced, it means
chicken, and is the Nepalese word for chicken; I assumed it was the word for
chicken used by those who lived close to the North of India / Himalayas. If
you do not use this word, where are you from?? The people who wrote the book
look Pakistani, and are called Khan Mohammed **** Waza, where **** is either
Sharief, Shafi or Rafiq. It was published in Leicester and Delhi in 2001.
Does your recipe pre-date this??

Cheers
Wazza

bryan wallwork

I did, and was very disappointed.......


no it is not, it is a blue dye and a yellow dye, both synthesised.

good point, the e-number method of labelling was brought in to reduce the
amount of writing on the label, it was not to disguise the ingredients.
E-number substances are not 'unnatural ingredients', though the general
concensus supposes that they are. They are a complete mixed bag of things,
some completely innocuous and some maybe a little suspect, but one (and I
don't mean you, Elaine) should not equate e-numbers with 'a bad thing'.