mike hall

The Chrysler Neon was marketed in the UK, but has not been sucessful.. also


--
History is only the past if we choose to do nothing about it..
"MoPar Man" <MoPar@Man.com> wrote in message news:3FEFB795.B8D1B053@Man.com...

mopar man

During 1/2 dozen business trips to Germany / NL in the past 2-3 years
I see very very very few American cars in parking lots and on the
road. I remember specifically seeing a handful of 300M's (and I
smiled each time I saw one). Saw a PT Cruiser in Berlin late last
year.

I don't think that the larger vehicles made in the US (vans,
mini-vans, pickup trucks) are right for the EU market, but certainly
the sedans (of all sizes except for stuff like a crown-vic) would not
be out-of-place there. I think there's a reluctance on Daimler's part
to sell Mopar cars in Germany/EU for reasons that anyone has yet to
voice. I think there's an internal struggle within Daimler to give
Chrysler vehicles more exposure in EU, which will get worse as the US
dollar sinks vs the Euro and Daimler continues to throws away the
profit potential of selling Chrysler in EU.

daniel j. stern

Gee, that's funny...the last two times I've visited Europe, there have
been '89 and later Chrysler Voyagers *all over* the place. The common
rail turbodiesel/5-speed combo (not available in North America) is
particularly popular.

DS

daniel j. stern

Because they saw Chrysler repeatedly bring concept cars to market in
record time and figured that by assimilating Chrysler, they could speed up
their own frozen-molasses speed of innovation. Unfortunately for them,
virtually every last bit of the engineering and design talent that powered
Chrysler jumped ship at or shortly after the takeover.

It's interesting to note the similarities between Daimler-Benz and the Borg.

M-klasse SUVs are made in America.

DS

mopar440

You seem to be confused between Chryco and ENRON
Somehow "fancy" accounting doesn't work for 15 years or more.
You do know that Chryco's financial trouble happened when Jimmy Carter was
president?
I spose your next 'assertion" will be that the loan wasn't paid back?

I'll start watching reality TV shows, when I can vote people off the planet.

mopar man

And that explains why they swept the year-2000 Hemi-C concept under
the rug never to be seen again? And the Charger concept also shown at
the 2000 Detroit auto show?


While that sounds romantic, and it might be true, and there is even
reason to believe it is true, can anyone point to any exodus of design
or styling talent from Chrysler? Anything published by any automotive
rag along those lines?

Yea well like I said you're not seeing Chryslers turning up in Europe
because of this merger. If there was an assimilation, it's hard to
understand what Daimler intended to happen with Chrysler's
physical-plant, engineers, market share, etc.

daniel j. stern

Nonsequitur. Read what I wrote again, more carefully this time.

Yep. Bob Lutz is one of a *great* many.


"Automotive News", yes, but I don't expect you read industry publications
-- you strike me as more of a "Consumer Reports" guy, or maybe "Car and
Driver"...someone who likes magazines that do his thinking for him.


...."if"?

DS

mopar man

Chrysler can bring concept cars to market faster than Merc. The logic
being that Daimler can transplant that ability into Merc. Step 1 of
that process is to throw in the toilet all current Chrysler concepts.
Step 2 is - what? Where is the evidence that Chrysler's
concept-to-market knowhow is being used by Merc? (other than to
re-design Chrysler vehicles so that they use more Merc parts?)


Lutz was in his late 60's when he left (67 I think). He was hired by
GM in 2001 and was going to "shake up the place". Anyone seen any
shaking at GM lately? No matter how good Lutz was as at product
development, if you don't have good design people in the trenches
turning out ideas then you don't have squat. Besides, he was
Vice-chairman when he left. That's a long way from product manager/designer.


If there's an on-line reference, please quote the article.


If they don't require a subscription, and I'm sufficiently motivated,
sure. I'm usually too busy reading other (non-automotive) industry publications.


You'd be wrong. Ok, maybe once every few years when I'm in the market
for a dishwasher or fridge.


Only when they review radar detectors.

Like your industry publications? Is that why you read them?

ted mittelstaedt

Um, DS said that Damlier now _can't_ transplant this faster
to market ability to Merc because all the talent jumped ship.
So why would there be evidence that the concept-to-market
knowhow is being used by Merc? They don't have it anymore
and lost it after the merger.

Also don't forget the US economy went into a depression shortly
after the takeover, and a great many things started to change. The
process was hastened by 9-11 and GM's subsequent kickoff of
a price war on 0% interest. Neither of these things were known
in advance (although many people were expecting the stock market to
crash, just not that quickly)

While I, like Daniel, believe that Damlier wanted more than a simple
market share increase by buying Chrysler it seems quite obvious today
that Damlier has abandonded all hope of getting anything more out
of Chrysler OTHER THAN market share. Clearly they have written
off Chrysler's engineering and design team and expect them to only
integrate Merc parts into the Chrysler model line. In another 10 years
if Damlier doesen't let Chrysler go, the typical Chrysler/Dodge vehicle
will be indistinguishable from the Mercedes vehicle under the hood, the
only external difference will be styling changes. Merc will be positioned
to the high-end market, Dodge will be everybody else, and Chrysler will
be sandwiched in the middle somewhere. This is the model that GM is
using with the Buick/Chevrolet/Olds lines.

Ted

mopar440

You forgot Pontiac & Cadillac

I'll start watching reality TV shows, when I can vote people off the planet.