mikewrite

Thanks. As I don't know whether this thing came with ATF+4 from the
factory, it looks like I'd better go with it now.

Mike

mikewrite

Yep. I remember there was an insert card in the owner's manual telling her
to ignore whatever tranny fluid the manual specified and to instead use ...
well there's the damn thing, I can't remember what the card said, and she
lost it and the manual. I vaguely remember it saying to not use ATF+X and
instead use ATF+Y, but which way it went, who knows.

Gonna stick with ATF+4 to be safe!

Mike

trdstr2000

They become "crappy" if/when you DON'T use the correct fluid.

ted mittelstaedt

They do, they hold the patent on the additive package and have only licensed
it to one manufacturer. Supposedly there is no requirement that this fluid
producer
only sell their output to Damlier Chrysler but somehow most of the worlds
production
of ATF +4 ends up at DC.

There are a few leaks, however. I forget who but there's a Canadian
producer
that sells ATF +4, and as that producer is also whom makes it for DC, it's
probably the real thing.

There's been repeated requests by the fluid manufacturers to DC to license
the
patent to them for production. These so far have been ignored. What all
this
means is that the second the patent runs out, sometime in the next decade,
all
the fluid producers will immediately start selling ATF +4 and to hell with
what
DC wants.

There has always been a kind of gentlemen's agreement with the fluid
manufacturers
and the automakers on these issues. When the automakers need a new type of
fluid they cooperate with the R&D department of a specified fluid
manufacturer
and get one custom designed. The deal works out to the maker puts up the
money
to make the fluid, then gets to hold the patent until it expires. The fluid
maker gets
to license the rights to make it very cheaply then sell it back to the
maker, and to
everyone else. Then the fluid makers sell it on the open market and
everyone makes
a lot of money. This is how ATF +3 worked out. With ATF +4 Chrysler got
greedy
and decided to use ATF+4 as a leverage to get people to come into dealership
service departments, and to make money off fluid sales. Of course, an
automaker
is not setup to distribute fluids and can only do so very inefficiently,
which is why
they sell the stuff for the $5 a bottle or whatever rediculous price it is now.

The ONLY saving grace on ATF+4 is that unlike ATF +3 it IS a synthetic
fluid.
Thus it in theory can last the life of the car, (not my words, I'll refer
you to the
synthetic oil crowd for rediculous claims) and never needs changing. (yeah
right)

Ted

mopar440

I'd say that is a pretty brilliant strategy.
Kind like you buying that Latte(sp), (never drink the crap myself) for what
$3.or that bottle of water for $2 ?
Tap water works for me
Other car makers have used their own "brand specific" fluids
When you going to start whining about them????

Politics, the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from
the rich.

mikewrite

On Tuesday I called around and discovered that both our area Chrysler
dealerships (unrelated ownership) were selling ATF+4 for the same price:
$7.20/qt. Youch! Still, I felt I had no choice but to get it, to be sure I
was doing the best thing for my friend's van. (Me to parts guy at
dealership: "So when's Chrysler gonna let somebody else sell this stuff?"
Parts guy: "Hopefully never.") So I picked up two gallons and did the
flush.

The good news: flush did the trick. Tranny now behaves properly.

The bad news: I needed another two quarts following the flush to achieve
correct fluid level. So two days later (yesterday) I went back to the same
dealer for the final two quarts, and guess what - the price had dropped to
$5.10/qt.

Doh!!!

Mike

transsurgeon

buy the gallon containers

much cheaper per quart

robs440

question.....

did you buy the qrts from the same guy you bought the gallons from ?

mikewrite

yep. he said "all our stuff just went down," meaning not just the atf+4.
The per gallon cost at the time I bought the gallon containers saved very
little over the $7.20/qt cost, I think the gallon was like $27 versus $28.80
if I'd bought it per quart.

robs440

was curious. at times i can go to the parts house and they can give me
different quotes depending on whos reading the book.

any way its good to know its coming down some in price now.