Transurgeon 2011-05-28 22:02:13
pretty much common-sense stuff, ain’t it ?
but some folks are like dogs watching TV…………..they just don’t get it
William g. 2011-05-28 22:02:23
For some odd reason, I did not get the original post . Please Budd Cochran
could you repost? Where are the files?
Budd cochran 2011-05-28 22:02:39
Yep. The factory has to build engines for a broad spectrum of uses, so if
one needs to improve towability, for example, then rebuild time is your
When I had the 318 out of the Truck a few years back, one change I made was
the use of the old 360 degree 2-barrel intake. To hear some “experts” I
should have lost low end power, but I did a little port work to match to the
gaskets, radiused under the carb for a better transition to the runners. The
result is plenty of low and mid range power (as demonstrated by the load I
hauled over Vail Pass in CO) and better breathing on top end as well ( each
cylinder is filled by both carb barrels instead of just one.
Hey it runs good enough to shake up some 350 Chevy truck owners.
Budd cochran 2011-05-28 22:31:46
My mailwasher program deleted and bounced your email to me. Please resend it
and I’ll see if I can it thru this time.
William g. 2011-05-29 00:32:24
I’ll post it here too. Something has to work!!
I am kinda new to the newsgroups and therefore not sure what is happening.
I see your post (below) of August 29, 6:40 am??? (you should be sleeping in
on Sundays!!!) in response to a post by this TranSurgeon dude that was in
response to your post saying “here’s what I dug out of the Mopar Action
Special #5”. I didn’t get that original post. Were the files sent as
attachments? If I click on the blue underlined message link I get the
error message that the post has been deleted. Since I am sure that is not
true, something must be goofed up.
I do appreciate your effort and help but I can’t use it if I can’t get it.
Anyway would you be so kind as to e-mail it directly to me as attachment in
I went to the Mopar Action website to see if maybe it that article was
available there but NOT. They did e-mail back to me and they told me the
Specials may become available on CD this fall. I guess I somewhat agree
with the Transurgeon that it is probably common sense stuff but I was
thinking there might be some glaring problem with the 360 you guys know
about and I could start there. No sense reinventing the wheel, that would
not be too wise either.
OBTW, contrary to TransSurgeons snide remark, my daughters Chinese Pug
watches TV and I think does get it. She only attacks the TV when other
animals are on. She even comes in from the other room when she hears the
music from a commercial she knows has animals in it. That’s a better
response than some people I know.
Thanks a bunch
Ramworker 2011-05-29 00:32:35
Here ‘ya go. Your ISP probably doesn’t allow for newsgroup attachments.
SUGGESTED MODIFICATIONS FOR TOWING WITH PRE-MAGNUM 360 V-8 ENGINES
(Note: buying and building a 360 is usually cheaper than a big block, V-10
or Cummins swap)
Source: Mopar Action Tech Special #5, Author, Lou Gaatz
Engines: Any 360 in good shape that has not been severely overheated or
Preparation: disassemble, clean (hot tank preferred), check bore, mains,
remove cam bearings, disassemble heads. Overbore as little as possible and
hone for selected ring type. Line boring of mains not required, but
suggested. Refurbish connecting rods. Have heads rebuilt with 3-angle valve
job (pocket porting optional), umbrella seals on intakes, and new valve
springs. Replace all fasteners with ARP parts. Mike crank and have ground
undersize, if needed. Install new cam bearings
(yes, so far this is nothing more than a good basic rebuild)
Pistons: M.A. suggests Keith Black Hyperutetic with a reverse dome to aid in
detonation control with a compression ratio, after block and head work, of
8.8-9.0:1 for 87 octane fuel.
(Balancing of the rotating assembly not required, but highly suggested.)
Rings: M.A. suggests Sealed Power, file to fit, top moly-filled rings,
especially if K.B. Hyperutetic pistons are used.
Main / Rod bearings: M.A. suggests Michigan 77 with full groove mains set at
Cam: M. A. suggests a Mopar Performance (or aftermarket equivalent)
hydraulic with 268 / 272 @0.050″ duration, 0.455″ lift installed @ 2 degrees
advanced for auto trans use. Go to a milder duration for manual
Install a M.P. windage tray and on 6 quart, truck oil pans, re-mark the
dipstick for 5 quarts.
Assemble with a good dual plane intake and a vacuum or air valve seconday,
four barrell carburetor of about 625 to 650 CFM (I like either the
Eldelbrock AVS or the Rochester Quadra-Jet) or, if you can afford it, go to
a single plane manifold that has been modified for Rance E.F.I. (best
choice!), headers are optional, and a K& N filter is not needed as the air
flow through a paper filter more than enough. A cold air system should be
considered for the E.F.I. setup, as it doesn’t need heated air for cold
William g. 2011-05-29 00:38:25
OK, I read the suggestions and will consider all. What if a fool was
willing to spend the extra $$ for 91-92 octane and he wanted the highest
Compression Ratio he could safely get with iron heads? How high would you
say this fool could go? 10:1 with flat top pistons? The list says
8.8-9.0:1 on 87 pump gas.
Next, how bullet proof is the 727 trans in a 1977 with only 26K miles? Do
ya think it needs beefing with the combinations you have suggested? For my
application, would anybody consider a newer OD trans? Do the newer OD trans
have more favorable ratios for hill climbing with a 10,000 lb Winne-pig-o?
Budd cochran 2011-05-29 00:38:29
I wouldn’t suggest over 9.5:1 on the compression ratio. You have a
moderately small engine with a sizable load on it. Add a summertime trip to
some desert country, like out here in Moab UT, and ping rears it’s ugly
head. Also, I really don’t think the higher CR will benefit that much. It
amounts to maybe 3-5 horsepower.
The one in my son’s truck is pushing 350,000 miles (79 D-150) and it looks
like it’s had the pan off once before I got it. Yes, I’ve missed a couple
fluid & filter changes and band adjustments, but there was no undue wear and
the bands adjusted right up, thanks to TranSurgeon’s advice.
Tough? It’ll handle a mild 426 Hemi in stock form.
Nope, but you might consider changing to Ford Type “F” fluid for firmer
shifts and make sure you add a big external trans cooler, if you don’t have one already.
You’ve got a medium sized engine, pushing an object with the aerodynamics of
a house thru the air at highway speeds . . . you’re not going to get any gas
mileage. If anything, you might want to consider a Gear Vendors under-drive
to give you a little more pulling power at low speed and a couple in-between
ratios to help get her rolling easier.
The only dumb question is one that should have been asked and wasn’t.
Mopar440 2011-05-29 00:39:33
Waste of time trying to tow 10,000 pounds with a 360
Your truck better be a 1 ton dually with 4.10 gears. The overdrive
transmissions have the same ratio as the 727 except for overdrive which you
won’t use while towing anyway.
To get the torque you will need to overcome wind resistance and load, you
should seriously consider using the 4 inch stroke crank. They are available in
kit form with rods and pistons and transform a 360 into a 408 inch engine with
a LOT more torque. Buy the best kit you can afford and one that is already
balanced either external or internal.
It will also be beneficial to have pocket porting of the heads and a very good
valve job done to the stock heads
The 727 is fine, run LOTS of cooler on it. Consider dexron with Mobil 1 10/30
synthetic 50/50 for fluid
Headers will help, ceramic coated ones will survive the heat generated, 3 inch
Custom built 4 core radiator
Politics, the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from
William g. 2011-05-29 00:52:04
Not sure if it matters in your evaluation but it is actually a 1 ton dually
Motorhome with 4.10 gears. The weight I am actually guessing at but my wife
does pack a lot of s*** when we go camping. I just jumped into a towing
thread because I figured torque was torque. I do like your idea of stroking
the 360. I guess I figure you can’t be too rich or have too many cubes 😉
Any other machine work required to accomodate the longer stroke? With your
name bing mopar440, I’m surprised you didn’t recommend the big block
William g. 2011-05-29 00:52:06
Just chatted with a coworker and he says his old Dodge RV has a 400 small
block in it. Ever heard of that? I gota admit I am much more familiar with
Chevy’s and Fords. I hope I didn’t “fart in church” by mentioning the
competition but I own one of each. My work truck is a 72 Chev, a project
car is my 65 Mustang 2+2, my wife drives a Camry, I have a Honda Motorcycle
and now the Dodge Motorhome. I had a 62 Plymouth in high school a million
years ago. Had a bullet proof 318 that I thought was the best ever. My
next project car will be my most favorite car of all, the 1968 Roadrunner.
Some day I gotta grow up.
Mac davis 2011-05-29 00:53:10
you gotta get older, but there’s no reason to grow up!!
Budd cochran 2011-05-29 00:53:44
A big block transplant would require a change of motor mounts, transmission,
drive shaft, radiator and the like. With the stroker kit, you can keep
It would also respond nicely to the modifications in the list.
Budd cochran 2011-05-29 00:53:45
Yep, but the engine is a big block. I’ll bet the distributor is mounted in
front and angled toward the passenger side.
Well, we can’t all be perfect.
convertible … a Mitsubishi in Mopar clothing.
My last motorcycle was a 72 Honda CB-450. I’m currently rebuilding, sorta
“resto-rodding” as it were, a 1952 Cushman step-thru motorscooter.
A 68 Road Runner was my first new car at age 21. Unfortunately, I took ill
and by the time I recovered, it was repo’d.
Why? There’s no fun in it (age 57)