snoman

THere was a recall/TSB of sorts on it that I saw some time ago that I
cannot locate at this time. This is a classic Detriot screw up. In
this case it is Ford. Theyhave a big problem but rather than admitt
problem, they try to pass it off to consumers. I have heard of a few
getting them fixed for free out of warranty when they complained loud
enough. Given the amount of these engines on the road, to "fix" all of
them could easily run into the hundreds of millions of dollars and
beyond so they try to shift blame. Kinda like the Explorer rollover
thing when a rear tire blows. They blamed the tire (never mind tht
door sticker underinflated it and vehicle was so unstable that a tire
failure was almost a sure ticke to a roll over) to limit liablity even
though Ford quietly did a MAJOR redesign of explore chassi in 03
little was officailly said but it was done to reduce roll over
tendancies.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

c. e. white

You are just full of BS. Even the Firestone executives admitted that
the tires installed on the Explorer should have been sufficient to
carry the load imposed by an Explorer if only inflated to 22 psi
(instead of 28). They were recommending the 30 to provide even more
margin. And in fact, Explorers were never particularly prone to roll
over no matter what the press tried to claim. Chevy S10 Blazers,
Toyota 4Runners, Isuzu Trooper, etc all had much higher rates of
rollover than 4 Door Explorers. The whole thing was a media driven
feeding frenzy. And finally, 1996 Explorers were sold with both
Goodyear and Firestone tries. Both brands had the same inflation
pressure recommendations. Only the Firestone tires had a high failure
rate. The supposedly dangerous 1990's era 4 Door Explorers were among
the safest vehicles of the period. Among 4 door SUVs of the late 90's
only the Jeep Grand Cherokee had a lower insurance industry injury
loss rating.

The Explorer was completely redesigned for the 2002 Model Year - not
2003. The 2002 Explorer was completely different and included IRS.
Your claim that this was primarily done to reduce the rollover risk is
more BS, although I am sure improved safety was one of the reasons. On
the other hand, the Explorer Sport and Explorer SportTrac continued
with the older type chassis beyond 2002.

Ed

chuck

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17035497@N08/1810582306/

I come back here everyday to see what is going on. I found these good photos (5 shown on link above) of a dirty coil over plug (COP) boot and dirty spark plug bore that is a clear sign of a leaking and loose plug. This is a great way to keep an eye on this situation. I admit that I did hear a rhythmic hissing sound that I should have jumped on, now knowing it was the compression stroke gasses blowing past the threads. I am just glad it was the #1 plug and that there was no fuel rail or COP damage other than a broken mounting ear.

You definitely need to be sure you get the proper spark plug model in there, torque it properly, maybe using some anti-seize compound on the threads etc. Its tough to see, but with a very bright flashlight I have visually looked at each of the areas where the spark plug bores are and there appears to be no "blow by." There sure is around the one that blew out though.

Without choosing sides of all the people who helped contribute their thoughts on this incident, I agree with Ed and his EXCELLENT comments throughout.

ps: If you want to read a real horror story on one guys Triton problems, read http://home.nycap.rr.com/tritonlemon/ whew....

c. e. white

Actually proper torque is essential for all aluminum heads. The Ford problem
does appear to be especially common, but it is not unique. One thing I don't
understand is that no one heard of this problem before 1997. Ford modular
engines have been in production since the early 90's. The plug design was
the same from the early 90's until 2003. Why don't we hear about significant
numbers of plugs blowing out of older Town Cars, Mustangs, or Crown
Victorias (all which used the modular V-8s). My personal theory is that
although the 5.4L engines uses the same heads as the 4.6L engines, the 5.4L
engines stress the heads to a greater degree, making proper torquing of the
plugs excessively critical. I consider this a design defect but one that can
be avoided if you are very careful. In my family we have owned a total of 5
Fords with the modular V-8:

1992 Mercury Grand marquis - 4.6L no problems in 8 years, 90k miles
1997 Ford Expedition - 5.4L - no problems in 5 years 150k miles
2000 Mercury Grand Marquis - no problems in 6 years 80k miles
2001 Ford Mustang - 4.6L - no problems in 4 years, 50k miles
2003 Ford Expedition - 5.4L - no problems in 4 years, 100k miles

The plugs were changed in the two Expeditions (100k miles for the '97, 80k
miles for the '03).

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40340.htm

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl466h.htm
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...k-plug-thread/

Ed

cryotek

Welp Here it is Friday. :evil: my 02 F-150 5.4 just blew a plug. Original plugs 76k miles. Drivers side 2nd to last one. Seems to be something with the head. Seems to be Bullshit if you ask me. Turns out I'm lucky enough to have a bunch of Friends that are Mechanics with thier own shops. They told me that they just fixed the same problem on a Lightening, about 1 month ago. Found out this afternoon that the same guy just blew out a second one as well. Fortunutly, they have the repair kit already just have to order more inserts on Monday to fix it.

So if this is a mechanic issue then it seems to me that Ford needs to get some serious training through there Service centers, because this seems to be an ongoing very well known issue. First hand here, as well as 2 times on the same vehicle from another customer. not to mention all the other known situations.

The sad truth is that Ford is getting away with murder on this one. Still going to cost me $400+ dollars to fix and I got an inside track. what about all these other people that don't have connections. This should be recalled and they should compensate anyone that had to shell out Repair costs for this problem.

chuck

This scared the bejesus out of me today. Shut it down immediately until I found out what it was. #1 plug blew right out of the hole and threads look hosed. Is this a job for a special helicoil insert or what????? Need some advice pretty quick so I know how to deal with anybody who says they can fix it.

Chuck

snoman

There was a recall on some of those engines you might check into that.
You can have a helocoil installed. The problem is that Ford used wrong
plug design and wrong torque spec. The threads did not actually strip
out the way you think. Then aluminum in heads has a different
expansion rate than steel plugs and over time the loosen up and rattle
in threaded bore until it kinda loosens up enough to wear threads out
from rattling and flame cutting. In future just check plug every 5K
miles or so and make sure they are snug. (you want to install/torque
them when engine is cold)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

c. e. white

This is BS. There is no recall, there is a TSB. If the plugs are
installed properly and torqued properly, there is no need to check
them every 5K miles. Ford did not use wrong torque spec - mechanics
replacing the plugs do. The proper torque spec is 11 ft.lbs. (14 Nm)
(or 9.5 to 20 Nm / 7 to 15 foot-pounds). As for whether or not it is
the wrong plug design, I guess it is if mechanics can't put them in
properly. I am confident than when the plugs are properly installed,
there won't be a problem. Unfortuntely, it appears it take a real
mechanic (skilled and careful) to do it correctly. Given the general
level of mechanics working these days, that means you are likely to
have a problem. This means it is a bad design. I owned two Expeditons
with the supposedly "bad" plugs, and in my family we had three other
vehicles with the supposedly bad design plugs. We never had a problem.
I had the plugs in my 1997 Expedition changed at 100,000 miles (they
actually looked good) and 50,000 miles later things were still fine. I
had the plugs in my 2003 (with supposedly different plugs - but they
looked the same) changed at 100,000 miles without incident. Mechanics
who don't torque the plugs properly can cause all sorts of problem. If
you don't torque them enough, they will loosen over time and destroy
the threads. If you use too high a torque, you destroy the threads
right away. I have seen it claimed that some engines came from Ford
with the plugs improperly torqued. I can't confirm this. I talked to
my local mechanics (not a Ford mechanic) and he's never seen one with
the problem unless someone had changed the plugs.

Ford just released a TSB that authorizes the use of a particualr type
of insert for non-warranty repairs (for warranty repairs, Ford says to
replace the head). Here is the TSB:

TSB 07-21-2

4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, OR 6.8L 2V - SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIR PROCEDURE -
NOT
COVERED UNDER NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY

Publication Date: October 17, 2007

FORD:1997 Thunderbird
1997-2004 Mustang
1997-2008 Crown Victoria
1997-1999 F-250 Light Duty
1997-2004 Expedition
1997-2008 E-Series, F-150
1998-2004 F-53 Motorhome Chassis, F-Super Duty
2001-2005 Excursion
2002-2006 Explorer
LINCOLN:1997-2007 Town Car
1998-1999 Navigator
MERCURY:1997 Cougar
1997-2008 Grand Marquis
2002-2006 Mountaineer

This article supersedes TSB 07-15-2 to update the vehicle model years.

ISSUE:

Some 1997-2008 vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 2V, 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V
engine
and aluminum cylinder heads may experience a spark plug port with
stripped
or missing threads.

ACTION:

Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition for non
warrantable repairs.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and
tool kit
as a proper repair procedure.
Follow the procedure included in the tool kit for using the tools and
inserts. Tool kits and inserts can be ordered from Rotunda by calling
1-800-Rotunda (768-8632). Choose option two (2), part number
302-00001.

NOTE:FORD MOTOR COMPANY HAS DETERMINED THAT REPAIRS MADE WITH THESE
ALUMINUM
INSERTS AND LOCK-N-STITCH TOOLS DO NOT AFFECT THE HEAT TRANSFER
FUNCTION
BETWEEN THE SPARK PLUG AND THE CYLINDER HEAD. [note from Ed W -
http://fulltorque.com/ ]

NOTE:THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT AUTHORIZED AS A FORD WARRANTY REPAIR. FOR
VEHICLES WITHIN WARRANTY, REPLACEMENT OF THE CYLINDER HEAD IS
RECOMMENDED.

NOTE:THIS IS THE ONLY FORD AUTHORIZED PROCEDURE FOR SPARK PLUG THREAD
REPAIRS.

NOTE:THIS PROCEDURE IS AUTHORIZED FOR ESP REPAIRS AND RETAIL REPAIRS.

WARRANTY STATUS:

Information Only - Not Warrantable

---------------------------------

Other intersting web sites:

http://fulltorque.com/
http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplugford.html
http://www.mattstruck.com/sparkplugs/sparkplugs.html
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40340.htm
http://www.engine-builder.com/ar/Ford.pdf
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/4.6...ed_Threads.pdf
http://www.blownoutsparkplug.com/faqs.htm


All Expedition Owners should conside joining the Expedition Owners
Group. See:
Expedition mailing list
Expedition@xpog.com
Use this link to manage your subscription:
http://mail.xpog.com/mailman/listinfo/expedition
List archives:
http://archive.xpog.com

Regards,

Ed White

snoman

The BS is yours here. They did have a LOT of issue with plugs coming
out of 5.4 and V10 with aluminum head in years past and ford did
change the plug style and torque on them. You ned to get your ducks in
a row here before you spot off like this. Whiel Ford does not
recommand retightening them every 5K, I do on problem engine to make
sure they are staying snug. If they are not found loose after a few
times then you can skip it. It is/was a problem that Ford likes to
keep quiet about because they do not want to have to "eat" a lot of
them if they do not have too.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

my name is nobody

Snowblower! Have you ever thought about or even tried using a spell
checker? Your spelling is atrocious! Not as bad as most of you misguided
misinformation, but it does run a close second...