phaeton

....well... not *exactly*, but let me explain..

Truck in question is a 1999 Ranger 4x2 stepsie with 112K on it, rear
antilocks only and all original equipment (excluding tires). Just like
the topic that i recently saw in here, my rear brakes 'stick' in the
morning when I release the parking brake. That's one issue, but here's
the one that kinda worries me-

When I'm driving in the rain, particularly at highway speeds, the
brakes appear to get wet to a point where they don't want to work at
first. It's just like riding a 10-speed in the rain- You hit the
brakes, but nothing happens until all the water gets planed off.

I wouldn't mind if it were maybe another 5 feet of stopping distance,
but at its worst, at 65mph I can probably travel about half a football
field's length between the time I step on the brake, and the time that
the truck even begins to slow down. The pedal feels fine, there is no
noise or anything, the truck just doesn't respond until the water is
gone. Once that happens it stops "normally".

"Normally" means like it always has. It's never had a great deal of
stopping power anyways- for instance on dry days when the brakes act
like usual, it is impossible for me to lock the tires on pavement, no
matter what the speed, temperature or load. The front tires don't
squeal, the antilock doesn't trigger for the rear wheels, but they
don't make any noise either. I know this because I've done a couple of
panic stops in those 112K miles, and for both of those, I was just
about standing on the brake pedal.

As for the wetness issue (if that's what it is).... have any other
ranger or truck owners experienced this? I've owned a lot of cars but
never saw this. Would a different brake pad compound make a
difference? Or is this just an effect of aerodynamics under the truck
directing a jet of mist directly at the rotors, and there's not a whole
lot I can do?

Thanks for any and all.

i. care

In article <1144435728.559452.91130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
blahbleh666@hotmail.com says...


<SNIP>

Don't have that problem in PNW where it rains a lot.
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

rce

My guess is your pads are bad or your calipers are out of adjustment. Disk
brakes should have a very light contact with the rotor even with no brake
applied to keep the rotors and pads dry.

RCE

whitelightning

I thought the "calipers out of adjustment" statement was a real hoot.

I would gamble the lining material is too hard, and/or the pads and rotors
are severely glazed.

I would also gamble the rear brakes are way out of adjustment.

Remember the combi valve has three functions. Oh and combi is short for
combination valve.

Before tandem brakes, the single reservoir/single bore masters pre 65
vehicles used a proportioning valve to give a 60/40-split front to rear.

With the advent of disc/drum we needed to hold the fronts off till the wheel
cylinders over come the resistance of the return spring of so a metering
valve was introduced., otherwise the vehicles wanted to swap ends.

Then the pressure differential switch was added to let you know, hey you got
a leak, will also seal that end off somewhat. Combine all three and you
get a combi valve.

Now then it can get more fun. Some vehicles added yet another valve to the
system, mostly mini vans, mostly Chrysler products, but some pick-ups as
well (should be all in my opinion), a weight sensing valve. It's hooked to
the rear suspension and chassis. As the vehicle is loaded it squats, and
the valve allows more pressure to the rear brakes. It also cuts braking
pressure when empty or when you really nail the brakes, the nose drops, the
tail raises as weight transfers, less weight on the rear wheels and we can
get lock up, even with antilock..

Early and mid disc/drum fords could be fun to bleed manually. If you pushed
the pedal too hard too fast with a bleeder open, the combi can shut the
fluid of to that end sensing a leak, what it's supposed to do. But
sometimes they got stuck. You might get it to free up by opening the other
end of the systems and hitting the brakes, or some times really jamb the
pedal hard and fast with all the bleeders shut (make sure the cover is on
the master). Sometimes you had to replace the damn thing. This was more a
problem with the early steel and cast iron valves; the problem seemed to go
away with use of aluminum.

Whitelightning

get off the road too.
old john

i. care

In article <OJqdnaXAqImF3qrZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
ajeeperman@comcast.net says...

<SNIP>


Picture this:

You knew your truck wouldn't stop quickly and you hit someone causing
serious injury...hmm...........
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

cjb

I'm going to help you a whole lot. :-)

First, your rears stick don't only in the morning; the problem most likely
is that they're sticking all the time. The only seem to free up, but
instead they're getting hot and fading, making them useless for stopping.
The fact that they're drum brakes only makes it worse, because drums don't
dissipate heat as well as disks. First, you have to find what's binding and
causing them to stick. It's probably a bad e-brake cable. Then, after you
replace the bad cable/cables or whatever, I'd recommend that you replace the
rear brake shoes and all hardware in the drum, i.e. springs, adjusters, etc.

Now, as to the problem with the brakes not locking up. There's NO reason
why they should not lock up. If they never have locked up, then I'd suggest
to you that they were never properly bled at the factory, or that your
driving style causes these particular brakes to glaze badly. The fact that
you've never replaced the pads in 112k miles, as you stated, indicates that
a) you use them very lightly, and b) they're obviously glazed and hardened.
Go right now and buy good brake pads for the front. Then get someone who
knows what they're doing to help you bleed the brake system completely and
thoroughly. If they still won't lock up, come back and tell us.

There you go!

CJB

sharky

There is no adjustment on the caliper, I hate to tell ya, LOL! As far as
the pads are concerned, they are designed to automatically adjust themselves
each time the brake pedal is depressed and released, and as they wear down.
That is if the caliper piston and the caliper slider pins are not seized and
working properly. As far as staying dry, the heat from each pad lightly
contacting the rotor as it spins (without the brake applied) is enough to
keep the rotor dry.

This sounds more like an issue of the material of the pads and/or shoes and
how wore out they are. The front pads may be good but the rear may be worn
out (or visa versa). I think you had better stop driving the truck until
you get the wheels off and check the pads and shoes out for yourself. At 7
years old, it is probably time for a brake service.

Good luck
Sharky

david f. mishiwiec sr.

Sounds like a mechanical issue with the parking brake cable/linkage. I'd
resolve that post haste.


OK. Does this happen ALL THE TIME or just when it first starts to rain?
Here is SoCal it rains very infrequently and oils build up on the
roadway. So, when it does rain the first 30-60 minutes are really fun as
that built-up oil sheen is brought to the surface by the rain and floats
on the surface.

That really makes for fun driving and the first couple of rains in the
rainy season make the area freeways look like amusement park bumper car
rides.

If you live in an area where it rains year round you have serious
issues. I'd inspect the calipers and the pins to make sure nothing is
obviously wrong. As the pads wear the piston in each caliper runs out to
maintain proper braking so a hung piston would pose a problem. The pads
are designed to always be in slight contact with each rotor to maintain
enough heat through friction to keep them dry enough to brake adequately.

Regardless, I would start a thorough brake overhaul until you resolve
all issues. Braking is the biggest safety issue confronting any driver,
duh, and you have a responsibility to yourself, your loved ones and
everyone else on the road to make sure your vehicle's brakes are in safe
operating condition.

Good luck!

--
************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************
David F. Mishiwiec Sr.

************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************

phaeton

Thanks to everyone for suggestions.

I just have one more quick question- A few of you have mentioned pad
and rotor glazing (which sounds plausible to me), but if it is caused
by 'driving style', what sort of thing might I be doing to cause this.

I.e., I can overhaul all the brakes and fix everything, but if i still
drive the same it'll happen again...

I mull around doing this myself, *but* since it is brakes, and since
I'll probably have to get rotors and drums turned anyways, I might just
take it in. What do you suppose a 4-wheel brake job (all new friction,
turning all surfaces, but assuming nothing is seriously out of whack,
such as effed up calipers) would run?

Thanks again.

Fwiw, this little Ranger has been relatively trouble-free in 112,000
miles. I've had other cars give me more grief in 1/4 the miles. I'm
impressed.