josh carter

A standard weapon damage question.
(sort of obvious so don't smite me too hard)


Does the weapon speed really impact the effectiveness of the weapon.

Example:

is an axe with a speed of 2.30 and damage of 25-39 (11.9 dam/ sec) more
effective than one that is speed of 3.50 and damage of 38-59 (17.9 dam/
sec).

and/ or

Does duel wield with two axes at 2.30 and damage of 25-39 (11.9 dam/ sec) do
more damage than a two-handed axe 3.70 and damage of 52-79 (17.9 dam/ sec).

Be kind..I can only wear cloth armor....

david carson

It CAN.

Look at the dps of the weapon. This is how much damage it should do if
you just stand there swinging it. Obviously higher is always better here.

But weapon-using classes have various special abilities which do damage
based off the weapon's BASE damage, not its dps (damage divided by speed).

e.g. Rogues' Sinister Strike and Backstab, Warriors' Mortal Strike and
Overpower, Hunters' Aimed Shot and Multishot.. all of these take a fixed
amount of time to launch (instant for most of them), and do damage based
on the weapon's base damage range.

So, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, slower weapons TEND to be more desirable. If
two weapons have same dps but one is slower, it must (by definition)
have a higher damage range.

Faster weapons offer very little. Apparently in PvP you will interrupt
enemy spellcasting more with a fast weapon than a slow one. Also some
"chance on hit" enhancements have a fixed % chance and thus will fire
more frequently with a fast weapon: Rogues' poisons are the most notable
example. Most enchantments (e.g. Fiery, Lifesteal, Crusader) do NOT work
this way - the chance is weighted by weapon speed so all weapon should
give similar numbers of procs.

Dual wield comes with a couple of gimpings - the offhand will only do
half damage and both hands have a 24% miss rate rather than the usual 5%.

So the maths for those two:

Dual-wield - (11.9 dps * 0.76) + (11.9 dps * 0.76 * 0.5) = 13.6 dps
Single - (17.9 dps * 0.95) = 17 dps

The two-handed axe will be superior.

Rule of thumb: a two-handed weapon needs 20% more dps than a one-handed
weapon to equal dual-wielding two of them.


In that case, don't worry too much about any of this. :-)

Cheers!
David...

This USED to be true. Last couple patches they have normalized rogue
and hunter attacks. They are no longer based on base weapon damage.

I don't know about warriors.

There're still some considerations for speed, for example, hunters with
the talent Improved Aspect of the Hawk would favor a faster bow.

However, the impact of weapon speed is now much less important for
rogues/hunters. (And maybe warriors?)

david carson

You clearly do not understand what the "weapon normalization" patch
actually did. Please educate yourself before posting in a thread where
someone is seeking advice as to the importance of weapon speed.

Cheers!
David...

brian

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read stush@rocketmail.com's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.


Actually, the base weapon damage is the *only* consideration that counts,
anymore. So you couldn't be more wrong.

Brian
--
ICQ#: 68214833 | AIM: LineNoise54
..
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me.

conspiracy

It wasn't the weapon damage that was normalised, it was the attack
power bonus to weapon damage.

What used to happen was this. Say you had x amount of attack power that
added 200dps. That's 100 damage per second on to your weapon. Now, if
you had a weapon that was 1.3 speed, an instant attack would be weapon
damage +130, 2.0 speed dagger gets +200. 4.0 speed axe would be weapon
damage +400. Now, what they have done, is that all weapons of a certain
class get a certain amount of damage based on attack power. Example:
all daggers are classed as 1.70 speed damage for attack power on
instant damage. Using this example, you can see that with the same
attack power a 2.0 speed dagger would get the same 170 damage as a 1.3
speed dagger. Thus the normalisation.

For classes that used instant attacks as their primary damage source,
rogues and mortal strike warriors mainly, you used to go for a really
slow weapon to maximise the attack power bonus. This made the blue 2.0
speed Barman's Shanker a more damaging dagger than the purple Gutgore
Ripper. Not a good thing when a Level 54 blue deals more damage than a
Level 60 epic.

So, since the normalisation patch, what you are looking for in a weapon
(if you use instant attacks) is the damage range. This is the part
where it says 180 - 243 damage, the higher those numbers (generally)
the better.

I hope this explained it a little bit, and I expect someone to rip it
to shreds - I've always had trouble trying to explain things.

david carson

I assume that one of those numbers was a typo and they're meant to be the same?! :-)

Nope, you nailed it.

To extend: prior to that change, as your attack power trended upwards,
weapon speed dominated every other consideration. So it got more and
more important as player gear/power levels increased. That's how the
crappy blue with slooow speed outperformed the epic with moderate speed.

Now: as your attack power trends upwards, weapon considerations actually
become less and less important. Only the damage range matters and it
becomes a smaller and smaller part of the total damage, swamped by your
normalized attack power contribution. Result: more flexibility of weapon
choices.

Cheers!
David...