juhana harju

::: Stacy wrote:
:::
::::: Who was the first to post about this plant? I forgot.
:::
::: I mentioned purslane as a good omega-3 source in the traditional
::: Cretan diet in this message
:::
:::
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/26145c9b950b4ff1?hl=fi&
:::
::: --
::: Juhana

:: Its not suprising that Stacy suggests another "food"
:: without the warning of known potential danger.
::
:: Can you resonably dismiss these hazards, Juhana?
:: Ed
::
:: High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L.
:: Nature. 1961 Sep 9;191:1108.
:: PMID: 13698823
::
:: Hypoglycemic action of Portulaca homogenates.
:: Hoppe Seylers Z Physiol Chem. 1962 May 4;327:274-5. German.
:: PMID: 13913362
:: (perhaps a benefit to some, but a hazard to an unsuspecting Type 1)

I think that you are just overcautious, Ed. Have you got any reason to doubt
that a small amount of dietary noradrenaline as in purslane would do any
harm? Any studies or references? Purslane is a classic salad vegetable used
in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area.

I think that for most of people a small amount of dopamine and noradrenaline
in purslane is just beneficial as they are mood enhancing neurotransmitters.

(Evidently President Clinton was trying to get rid of the Italian professor
Romano Prodi by offering him a dinner containg "salad of purslane and young
greens". http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/First_Lady/html/050698.html )

alt.folklore herbs added as there is herbalist Henriette Kress who might
know more about the subject.

--
Juhana

maison.mousse

Juhana Harju a écrit dans le message <3l0kprF10cvaeU1@individual.net>...


The very last place to look for data on harards of various
plants in from the charlatans who call themselves herbalists and actively
promote the use of harmful plant
products.

JL

maison.mousse

maison.mousse a écrit dans le message <42eb3383$0$


PS

Common Purslane the plant is common world wide.
It is considered a weed in areas such as California.
While edible it is not a common salad food as excess
consumation will cause the Russian condition know as the "trotskys".

The promotional hype is that "Omega 3 " DERIVED from the plant " has
many good effects. The statement while
technically true is meaningless.

JL

enrico c

Being murdered by Stalinists?

X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,alt.folklore.herbs


--
Enrico C

juhana harju

:: <news:42eb362a$0$25061$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> on
:: sci.med.nutrition,alt.folklore.herbs :
::
::: consumation will cause the Russian condition know as the
::: "trotskys".
::
:: Being murdered by Stalinists?

That's the case! Be aware of small Stalin lurking behind every purslane
plant.

--
Juhana

just ed

<snip>


You know that it is "a small amount"? The study I posted says
"High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L."

I don't think there's much doubt that noradrenaline, dopamine can kill.

There seem to plenty of such references on the web in the conduct of
research. It seems to be taken as a point of fact rather than a
question.

The question remains, how much noradrenaline, dopamine etc is there in purslane?

and that proves that it isn't responsible for unneccessary deaths?

At one time, opium was a classic smoke in parts of Asia, tobacco
remains popular today. By your 'logic' that makes these something to recommend?

Do you have any reason to think that?

If there's enough to have a measureable beneficial effect for some,
then its likely to be a problem for others. I find it odd to think
it is "just beneficial". Is this some kind of herbal magic where its
friendly spirit stops absorption in individuals who would be harmed?

While dopamine and noradrenaline clearly can do other things.
dopamine from purslane does not reach the brain (see below)
so it will not effect mood, it can raise BP if there's a
sig. amount there.

Purslane contains excitory neurotransmitter chemicals.
Those who might be sensitive ought start with a small 'dose'.
Those on MAOI drugs ought to avoid it entirely per my first
reference link below.


I know that you are being flip but there's a point or two here:

Fava beans (part of that same meal) are another middle eastern
functional food. Heavy on levadopa which is a dopamine precursor
(which you ingest directly from purslane), favas are considered a
"treatment for Parkinson's but they are also dangerous to some.
Benefit and danger described here:
http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.asp?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=100110

Note the widely varying levadopa content in the beans.

more on benefit and danger of levodopa and carbidopa at:
http://www.lef.org/anti-aging/chap9.html

purslane will not improve mood since the dopamine dosn't cross
the BB-barrier (except to cause nausea & vomiting if you can get
that much), it will affect the heart. (ref the lef link)

purslane will help you tolerate fava, (ref the lef link)
clever menu planning at the white house!

Clearly, foods can be dangerous despite being popular
in some parts of the world.

Tangential point:
You don't really think that Billy Bob had some part in
planning the meal? I suppose he selected opera for the
entertainment.

stacy

How many over there in the Eastern Mediterranean area have died from
routinely consuming this plant on almost a daily basis?
This is really laughable.
There are a ton of health sites including about.com that give all the
details of this plant and there is no mention of any harmful or dangerous
substances.


| > just Ed wrote: |
| <snip> |
| > :: Can you resonably dismiss these hazards, Juhana?
| > :: Ed
| > ::
| > :: High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L.
| > :: Nature. 1961 Sep 9;191:1108.
| > :: PMID: 13698823
| > ::
| > :: Hypoglycemic action of Portulaca homogenates.
| > :: Hoppe Seylers Z Physiol Chem. 1962 May 4;327:274-5. German.
| > :: PMID: 13913362
| > :: (perhaps a benefit to some, but a hazard to an unsuspecting Type 1)
| >
| > I think that you are just overcautious, Ed. Have you got any reason to doubt
| > that a small amount of dietary noradrenaline as in purslane would do any
| > harm? Any studies or references?
|
| You know that it is "a small amount"? The study I posted says
| "High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L."
|
| I don't think there's much doubt that noradrenaline, dopamine can kill.
|
| There seem to plenty of such references on the web in the conduct of
| research. It seems to be taken as a point of fact rather than a
| question.
|
| The question remains, how much noradrenaline, dopamine etc is there in | purslane? | |
| > Purslane is a classic salad vegetable used
| > in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area.
|
| and that proves that it isn't responsible for unneccessary deaths?
|
| At one time, opium was a classic smoke in parts of Asia, tobacco
| remains popular today. By your 'logic' that makes these something
| to recommend? | |
| > I think that for most of people a small amount of dopamine and noradrenaline
| > in purslane is just beneficial as they are mood enhancing
neurotransmitters.
|
| Do you have any reason to think that?
|
| If there's enough to have a measureable beneficial effect for some,
| then its likely to be a problem for others. I find it odd to think
| it is "just beneficial". Is this some kind of herbal magic where its
| friendly spirit stops absorption in individuals who would be harmed?
|
| While dopamine and noradrenaline clearly can do other things.
| dopamine from purslane does not reach the brain (see below)
| so it will not effect mood, it can raise BP if there's a
| sig. amount there.
|
| Purslane contains excitory neurotransmitter chemicals.
| Those who might be sensitive ought start with a small 'dose'.
| Those on MAOI drugs ought to avoid it entirely per my first
| reference link below. | |
| > (Evidently President Clinton was trying to get rid of the Italian professor
| > Romano Prodi by offering him a dinner containg "salad of purslane and young
| > greens". http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/First_Lady/html/050698.html )
|
| I know that you are being flip but there's a point or two here:
|
| Fava beans (part of that same meal) are another middle eastern
| functional food. Heavy on levadopa which is a dopamine precursor
| (which you ingest directly from purslane), favas are considered a
| "treatment for Parkinson's but they are also dangerous to some.
| Benefit and danger described here:
| http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.asp?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=100110
|
| Note the widely varying levadopa content in the beans.
|
| more on benefit and danger of levodopa and carbidopa at:
| http://www.lef.org/anti-aging/chap9.html
|
| purslane will not improve mood since the dopamine dosn't cross
| the BB-barrier (except to cause nausea & vomiting if you can get
| that much), it will affect the heart. (ref the lef link)
|
| purslane will help you tolerate fava, (ref the lef link)
| clever menu planning at the white house!
|
| Clearly, foods can be dangerous despite being popular
| in some parts of the world.
|
| Tangential point:
| You don't really think that Billy Bob had some part in
| planning the meal? I suppose he selected opera for the
| entertainment.
|

mr-natural-health

Where can you buy Purslane seed to grow in your garden?
-----

It took me less than 5 minutes to locate this information.

That book that Stacy has been knocking contains .5 grams of seed.
http://www.thestoreforhealthyliving.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TEWS&Product_Code=PUR&Category_Code=CB
According to my information that equates to almost 1,000 seeds, plus
the book for $10.00 plus shipping.

Another source for Purslane seeds is:
http://www.seedsofchange.com/garden_center/product_details.asp?item_no=S11062&q=+Purslane

But, the seed package is only half as big as the seed package that
comes with the above book.

Also ...
http://www.seedsofchange.com/garden_center/product_details.asp?item_no=S15913&q=+Purslane

The order phone number is 888-762-7333. Price is $2.65, plus shipping.

stacy

Now why JG, would you offer all this information on how to obtain these
seeds since you recently stated that you agreed this plant may be toxic
and you were so tired of informing the public about these harmful
products that Stacy keeps posting about??

I would think that if you truly thought them harmful, you would want to
protect the public from them (and me) and not reveal this info.

So have you changed your mind about the health benefits of the "toxic
weed" or do you just want to show how much better you are at finding
these resources?

OR perhaps, I was right, you truly do love me and actually wanted to
help me?? I will choose to believe the last. And thank you for those
links!

Love & Peace to you JG

| Where can you buy Purslane seed to grow in your garden?
| -----
|
| It took me less than 5 minutes to locate this information.
|
| That book that Stacy has been knocking contains .5 grams of seed.
|
http://www.thestoreforhealthyliving.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TEWS&Product_Code=PUR&Category_Code=CB
| According to my information that equates to almost 1,000 seeds, plus
| the book for $10.00 plus shipping.
|
| Another source for Purslane seeds is:
|
http://www.seedsofchange.com/garden_center/product_details.asp?item_no=S11062&q=+Purslane
|
| But, the seed package is only half as big as the seed package that
| comes with the above book.
|
| Also ...
|
http://www.seedsofchange.com/garden_center/product_details.asp?item_no=S15913&q=+Purslane
|
| The order phone number is 888-762-7333. Price is $2.65, plus shipping.
|

juhana harju

::: just Ed wrote:
::
::::: Can you resonably dismiss these hazards, Juhana?
::::: Ed
:::::
::::: High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L.
::::: Nature. 1961 Sep 9;191:1108.
::::: PMID: 13698823
:::::
::::: Hypoglycemic action of Portulaca homogenates.
::::: Hoppe Seylers Z Physiol Chem. 1962 May 4;327:274-5. German.
::::: PMID: 13913362
::::: (perhaps a benefit to some, but a hazard to an unsuspecting Type
::::: 1)

The latter is a different plant.

::: I think that you are just overcautious, Ed. Have you got any reason
::: to doubt that a small amount of dietary noradrenaline as in
::: purslane would do any harm? Any studies or references?
::
:: You know that it is "a small amount"? The study I posted says
:: "High concentration of (-)-noradrenaline in Portulaca oleracea L."

Well, that high is relative.

:: I don't think there's much doubt that noradrenaline, dopamine can
:: kill.
::
:: There seem to plenty of such references on the web in the conduct of
:: research. It seems to be taken as a point of fact rather than a
:: question.
::
:: The question remains, how much noradrenaline, dopamine etc is there
:: in purslane?
::
::: Purslane is a classic salad vegetable used
::: in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area.
::
:: and that proves that it isn't responsible for unneccessary deaths?
::
:: At one time, opium was a classic smoke in parts of Asia, tobacco
:: remains popular today. By your 'logic' that makes these something
:: to recommend?
::
::: I think that for most of people a small amount of dopamine and
::: noradrenaline in purslane is just beneficial as they are mood
::: enhancing neurotransmitters.
::
:: Do you have any reason to think that?
::
:: If there's enough to have a measureable beneficial effect for some,
:: then its likely to be a problem for others. I find it odd to think
:: it is "just beneficial". Is this some kind of herbal magic where its
:: friendly spirit stops absorption in individuals who would be harmed?
::
:: While dopamine and noradrenaline clearly can do other things.
:: dopamine from purslane does not reach the brain (see below)
:: so it will not effect mood, it can raise BP if there's a
:: sig. amount there.
::
:: Purslane contains excitory neurotransmitter chemicals.
:: Those who might be sensitive ought start with a small 'dose'.
:: Those on MAOI drugs ought to avoid it entirely per my first
:: reference link below.

Ed, while your detailed knowledge about those substances might be correct in
itself I think that your reductionist approach has led you astray (which is
very common in nutrition sciences). It is important to see the wood for the
trees.

Below is a journal article about purslane. Noradrenaline or dopamine are not
even mentioned. The lead author Simopoulos is an experienced and respected
scientist.

Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol 11, Issue 4 374-382.

Common purslane: a source of omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidants
A. P. Simopoulos, H. A. Norman, J. E. Gillaspy and J. A. Duke
Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009.

omega-3 fatty acids, alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid, beta-carotene and
glutathione determined in leaves of purslane (Portulaca oleracea), grown in
both a controlled growth chamber and in the wild, were compared in
composition to spinach. Leaves from both samples of purslane contained
higher amounts of alpha-linolenic acid (18:3w3) than did leaves of spinach.
Chamber-grown purslane contained the highest amount of 18:3w3. Samples from
the two kinds of purslane contained higher leaves of alpha-tocopherol,
ascorbic acid and glutathione than did spinach. Chamber-grown purslane was
richer in all three and the amount of alpha-tocopherol was seven times
higher than that found in spinach, whereas spinach was slightly higher in
beta-carotene. One hundred grams of fresh purslane leaves (one serving)
contain about 300-400 mg of 18:3w3; 12.2 mg of alpha-tocopherol; 26.6 mg of
ascorbic acid; 1.9 mg of beta-carotene; and 14.8 mg of glutathione. We
confirm that purslane is a nutritious food rich in omega-3 fatty acids and
antioxidants.

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/4/374

::: (Evidently President Clinton was trying to get rid of the Italian
::: professor Romano Prodi by offering him a dinner containg "salad of
::: purslane and young greens".
:::
::: http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/First_Lady/html/050698.html
::
:: I know that you are being flip but there's a point or two here:
::
:: Fava beans (part of that same meal) are another middle eastern
:: functional food. Heavy on levadopa which is a dopamine precursor
:: (which you ingest directly from purslane), favas are considered a
:: "treatment for Parkinson's but they are also dangerous to some.
:: Benefit and danger described here:
:: http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.asp?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=100110

I was aware of the high content of levadopa in fava beans but I did not know
about these adverse effects. Thanks for providing the information and
reminding me about that.

:: Note the widely varying levadopa content in the beans.
::
:: more on benefit and danger of levodopa and carbidopa at:
:: http://www.lef.org/anti-aging/chap9.html
::
:: purslane will not improve mood since the dopamine dosn't cross
:: the BB-barrier (except to cause nausea & vomiting if you can get
:: that much), it will affect the heart. (ref the lef link)
::
:: purslane will help you tolerate fava, (ref the lef link)
:: clever menu planning at the white house!
::
:: Clearly, foods can be dangerous despite being popular
:: in some parts of the world.

I agree. But it is also important which foods are *omitted*. Alfa-linolenic
acid rich foods are clearly lacking in the Western diets. Purslane would be
a good addtional source of that fatty acid.

:: Tangential point:
:: You don't really think that Billy Bob had some part in
:: planning the meal? I suppose he selected opera for the
:: entertainment.

Who knows. My reference to the dinner was meant to liven up the serious
discussion. But there is also a grain of truth hidden there: if a certain
food is served as part of a diplomatic meal it should not be toxic,
obviously.

--
Juhana