atlas

I'm italian.

Italy's citruses are quite famous.

Nevertheless there has been a long debate about how to fight calcium
carbonate in water, for feeding plants (citruses), in an italian gardening
newsgroup, and I couldn't get through it to make the right choice.

That's how it all began

It is well known how calcium carbonates (either in water or in the soil)
limits the proper absorption of essentials minerals, tipically iron,
magnesium and manganese (chlorosis), and how these problem is magnified when
pots are used for containing the plants.

Also using pots has worst effects due to higher concentration of deposits.

In my case I have to deal with a very calcareus water, a high Ph (8/8,5).

I haven't got a detailed ****ysis of the water.

I know that to have a properly targeted advise I should know important
information about active calcium carbonate, Ph, electric conductivity and so
forth.

Nevertheless speaking with a citrus expert, I've been advised to put some
citric acid into the water (30g per 100 Liters) to break calcium carbonate.

And here the debate began.

Some people said that citric acid can break calcium carbonate, but leaves
calcium ions in the water, makeing it soluble and ready to the plants. They
where thinking that the effect is worst.

This is were my question comes in.

1) Are the effects of the calcium carbonate worst of soluble calcium?

2) Is it possible to "rinse" the soil in the pots to wash out calcium
carbonate and salts left out from fertilizers?

Is there any effective (cheap test) to work it out? I would like to avoid
water ****ysis but, if it is the only way to set a proper strategy I will go
through it.

Thanks

P.S. - The soil isn't calcareous. It is made on purpose for citruses.

cereus-validus.

Sorry, there is no debate. No need to antagonize the master debaters in the
group!!!

Citrus is the same singular and plural. There is no such thing as
citruseseseseses.

Try using dilute vinegar to get rid of calcium carbonate. Calcium acetate is
water soluble.

atlas

is


Ok for the singular, but yuo're missing the point here..... I'm using
another method (citric acid) to get the same result (calcium citrate, water
soluble).

What I'm trying to point out is if calcium (citrate,acetate) is worst than
calcium carbonate.

Thanks

basia kulesz

U¿ytkownik "Atlas" <atlaspeak@my-deja.com> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
news:10nlhedr95bvk0f@news.supernews.com...

| Ok for the singular, but yuo're missing the point here..... I'm using
| another method (citric acid) to get the same result (calcium citrate,
water
| soluble).
|
| What I'm trying to point out is if calcium (citrate,acetate) is worst than
| calcium carbonate.

I put the citrus plant in acidic-type soil and treat it with wer straight
from the tap. No harmful side-effects, if some iron chelate is added from
time to time.

B.

edward reid

Florida grows lots of citrus. Though much of the growing water comes
from rain, it's also irrigated when needed. And all of the irrigation
water comes out of the limestone that underlays all of Florida.
Limestone is calcium carbonate, and the water thus contains a lot of
dissolved CaCO3.

I seriously doubt that CaCo3 harms citrus unless the quantity is vastly
greater than what naturally dissolves.

Edward

simy1

I don't have the answer, but it seems to me that this is what compost
tea is for. Humic acids can buffer a lot. Alternatively, you could
remove part of the soil in the pots and replace it with compost. Do
this every year, and cut down on fertilizer. I even put earthworms in
the pots to help with the mixing and buffering, since it is known that
worm castings are more neutral than the original soil.

david ross

I have dwarf citrus growing in containers; see my
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/dwarf_citrus.html>. I use a potting
mix that tends to be acidic because of the large amount of peat moss; see my
<http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_potting_mix.html>. The mix
also contains bone meal and gypsum, both of which are sources of
calcium.

Since the mix drains well, nutrients leach away. This is
accelerated by the fact that the containers are slightly elevated
on loose bricks and do not sit in any saucers or non-draining outer
containers. Thus, I have to feed frequently (but lightly to avoid
burning confined roots). I alternate between a commercial citrus
food and ammonium sulfate. Because citrus is sensitive to a lack
of zinc, I also give small doses of zinc sulfate. All of these are
acidic.

I think my home-made potting mix along with proper feeding will
counteract any alkalinity or salinity of your water. If the water
is really bad, you might have to renew the gypsum once or twice a
year.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/>

atlas

I swear it does if it exceeds the optimum range, and the effect is wider if
it applies to potted plants.
My water unfortunatelly does..

atlas

Dave thanks for answering.

Even mine are elevated on bricks, used to be fine with their soil, renewed
every two years, using a specific mixture of meso and micro elements
designed specifically for citrus.
Probably this year I've exceeded a little bit fertilizers and this may have
altered proper absorption ef elements.

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/hermann188/magnesio/index.htm

Have a look at those pics of the lemons of mine, about magnesium
deficiencies I've posted lately.

Nevertheless the water is very bad in term of calcium carbonate, high Ph
(8/8.5).

Still wondering for the future if soluble calcium ions can be more dangerous
for the lemons instead of the calcium carbonate...

Thanks for answering again and wishing to continue this freindly
conversation.

Regards

david ross

I looked at your photos. If there is a nutrient or salt problem,
it is minor. Your plants look quite healthy with only slight
chlorosis.

However, the container looks quite small. My dwarf citrus are in
18 inch (45 cm) redwood tubs, cylindrical and as deep as they are
across. I will soon replace one tub that is rotting with a
terra-cotta pot 20 inches (51 cm) across -- tapering to slightly
less at the bottom -- and 17 inches (43 cm) deep. It is very
similar to the pot in your IMG_3231.jpg.

You need a large container so that you can keep the soil moist
without it getting soggy. Too much water in the soil is as bad as
the wrong pH or too many minerals. Indeed, excess water causes
chlorosis.

With a large container and an acidic, well draining potting mix
(with acidity maintained with acidic fertilizers), any excess
calcium in the water or nutrients will readily leach away. This
cannot work, however, in a small container because the soil gets
too soggy before proper leaching occurs.

--

David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at <http://www.rossde.com/garden/>