se7en

Well Guys,

I won't be the first in this news group to express their disappointment with
'Train Of Thought'. Someone went so far as to write "Dream Theater is now
Metallica". I couldn't have said it better myself. This album is HORRIBLE !
I thought Dream Theater was a progressive Metal band. There's nothing
Progressive with this album. The time signatures are no different than what
you would find on a 'Stained' album. Track two (about two minuets in) is a
complete rip-off of Metallicas 'Blackened'.

I know that bands like to evolve but there's got to be a point where you
evolve to the point of being a completely different band. I happen to think
that we need another "Images and Words" or "Awake". It seems that ever since
they got involved with 'concept albums' the musical aspect of what we know
and love Dream Theater to be has been lost. I know that there are people who
would argue that they needn't reinvent the wheel. But Dream Theater is Dream
Theater. We fell in love with them because of their abilities to write
'Innocence Faded', Scarred, etc. John hasn't constructed a guitar solo like
in those two songs, since those two songs.....

God..............what a let down.................


=====
Se7en

ibanezjem28

The time signatures are no different than what


Not true...There are many diiferent meters being used through the
enitire album. This album is very complex,,,,Plus, they were going to
write a metal album from the begining...

"We fell in love with them because of their abilities to write
'Innocence Faded', Scarred, etc. John hasn't constructed a guitar solo
like in those two songs, since those two songs....."


I fell in love with them because of The Ytse Jam, Status Seeker,
Learning To Live and Metropolis...John has had many great solos since
those albums....COS solo at the end, Hells Kitchen, Trail Of Tears, it
goes on and on....

i am le tired

Nobody in their right mind thinks DT is about songs like "Innocence
Faded". This was a lame tune probably put in there by whoever was the
producer-of-the-day at that time in order to get some air time on
Canadian Rush-nostalgic radio stations for lonely truckers. Songs aren't
about containing "the best guitar solo" either - besides, this is so
subjective.

ToT rocks - learn to appreciate the band's evolution.

se7en

.........look, face it. THE ALBUM PLAIN ****S!!!!!!! They evolved to the
point where they should change their name. And your an ass for picking up on
ONE song that I used to express a BIGGER point. OK, forget about 'Innocence
Faded', how about Metropolis pt 1? Is that easier for someone of your
apparent intellect to understand? Notice that you avoided my truthful
observation on the apparent rip-off of Metallicas 'Blackened' on their
second track. Oopps, I guess you don't want to deal with that yet. It hurts
you too much. But, rip my post apart. The truth hurts too much for you to do
anything else but.....I expect this kind of SHALLOW response in this news
group.

ToT ****S - Learn to accept the truth

--


=====
Se7en

ibanezjem28

That is subjective...not the truth for me I love it...BTW, I stated
Metropolis in my first post...As for the Metallica thing...listen
closely...They overlapped Metallica with Dave Mustaine vocals under
it,in essence what they feel may have come if Dave never left the
band...It is done on purpose and it is only for a short segment. If
you don't like it fine, we heard your point. I don't have to agree,
and I don't. This is a great metal album and very progressive. Learn to live with that!

atrox

Hell has frozen over. You and I agree on something. Se7en's opinion *is*
completely subjective, since there is no way to objectively measure
"****iness." The valid point that he raises, however, is the fact that DT
seems to "borrow" very closely from the bands that influence them. This has
been something that people have pointed out for a long time. Some people
think they plagiarize because the song writing talent left the band with
Kevin Moore. Other people think that they are "paying tribute." Some people
honestly don't seem to hear the similarities.

To my ears, it seems that DT is borrowing quite a bit on ToT, as well as
recycling riffs from earlier albums. I think in some ways this detracts from
the album's originality. But I do think they synthesize these riffs and
borrowed materials in interesting ways, which is why overall, I like this
album better than 6DoIT.

djrjr

All I know is when DT puts out a new cd it can take me months, sometimes
years to learn the drum parts(some I never will be able to play). Not the
case with this cd! I have to agree with Se7en. It's just missing the DT
magic imo. Usually anything these guys do is badass. They didn't switch
instruments again did they? Whats up with the vocals. Sounds like shit or
when MP trys to sing a part.

atrox

It would have taken months to learn these drum parts as well if you hadn't
already learned the other DT drum parts. The drumming on ToT displays all
the same complexity, its just that MP doesn't do anything he hasn't done
before. I agree that this album is much more straightforward than the
previous two, but it seems that that's the CD they wanted to make. I don't
think its a masterpiece by any stretch, but I'll take a straightforward and
slightly unoriginal album of rocking tunes (like ToT) over a pretentious,
self-indulgent double album (like SDoIT) any day.

ibanezjem28

Kevin Moore was a key part to the overall chemistry of the band. His
approach was more musical than Jordan..Jordan has the chops...Equal
trade off? I think not because we would both probably agree that the
composition comes first. KM was the complete package. KM brought the
writing ability, the lush keyboard tones, and even though not quite as
chopped out as Jordan, he was well equipped for the gig...The magic
formula or the trademark of Dream Theater has always been the ability
to be musically outrageous and still maintain the creation of a
powerful song (i.e Metropolis Pt.1) Funny enough my favorite DT song
is still Learning To Live and was written by Myung,

I don't remember if you were the one to say it, as much as I love DT,
it seems to becoming more and more like a Petrucci/Portnoy project.
Myung hasn't had a song on the last 2 albums.


it seems that DT is borrowing quite a bit on ToT, as well as

I though this at first when I heard a bit of Tool in "Home" and then
"The Great Debate" and was bothered by it. Then I was okay with it
because it was only in short segements and seemed to flow nicely. The
only obvious ref. on TOT, without a doubt, is the "Blackend"
section...There are some other riffs that resemble the likes
of:Pantera, Megadeth, Tool and other metal bands. However, I think
they are different enough that I can enjoy it. I'm not sure if your a
musician or not, but if you are, you know as well as I do we all write
from influence . Sometimes you write a riff and don't even realize
it's very similar to another band. I think there is a mixture of some
actual, intentional references as well as the theory I just expalined.
Tie that in with the references back to the Glass Prison (whcih I
happen to like how they did that....and the end, ouch!).

I can see why this may turn some people off. For me there is enough
fresh melody(especailly in the vox) and riffage to really get into
this album. Hell must have froze over because I also think this is
better album than SDOIT.

erik muna aka petfish

Good points, at least you stated your reasons unlike some people around
here.

After a week I've decided I love this album. I'm taking it for what it
is... a "classic" metal album which is what DT set out to do in the first
place and I think they succeeded in spades. I love the riffs and the
atmosphere and SoC is just a sweet song. I can appreciate DT for being DT
with each album, regardless of what people think they *should* have done,
because it's them and it's what they want to make. If I have a friend dye
her hair green to I hate her for it even though I don't like it? No, that's
arrogant and disrespectful and that's how I think of DT... like friends, and
I am just thankful that they are still around making great music but maybe
it's all IMHO.

PS - I wish people would stop stating their opinion as if it were fact. I
fell in love with DT cuz of other songs than the ones you mentioned and I


emotion. I could go on but I won't. I'm sorry you don't like the album
with such passion but I hope you don't turn your back on DT forever.

--
Erik Muna aka PetFish
Freelance Web Design & Graphic Arts
http://www.petfishonline.com ... my online portfolio
http://www.dt-x.com ... my Dream Theater media site
ICQ: 13466765
"Se7en" <se7enthstring@777.com> wrote in message news:dDvub.221048$pT1.125569@twister.nyc.rr.com...