palmer_ent@webtv.net (c

bill -

i tried to offer a simple answer to a poster's problem and it just keeps
getting worse.

if i were to comment on point by point what was said, then it sounds
like a flame or war of words. that is not why i'm here. i'm here to
help - period.

i will say this though. i was shocked when i first read what you said.
then as i reread your post, i think that maybe the answer came to light.
so here is what i see.

for the record-----

under NO cir***stances am i saying or tried to IMPLY that psa is causing
or feeding cancer growth. nor am i saying or implying that ANY kind of
treatment, that the purpose isto reduce psa.


i have said that a psa test is simple a way we have to know the activity
of what's going on inside our body. and yes, there is plenty of debate
whether or not on the use of psa testing, but i'm not going there.

i will correct myself on one thing i did say.
i should have said that when male mormoes are shut of, the psa-making
process MAY stop instead of saying the psa-making process IS stopped.

btw, the reference to that is found in dr. walsh's book page 353

this is more along curious, so humor me. when i was teaching, i was
amazed by how many different ways someone can read a question and come
up with what they think the question was asking and each one had a point
as to their way of thinking. i would point out to them, "read the
question for what it is asking. do not put any other interuptiations in
the question or else you get into trouble"

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional

palmer_ent@webtv.net (c

i hit the wrong button and it was sent.

to continue what i saying about understanding the question. this is
what i'm asking and it is just a honest question.

the poster wanted to know that if medication that lowers psa would
affect cancer growth. i would still have to say yes.

now, i noticed that when you posted, you put word "or" in part of your
answer. and from that view point, may be why it is being seen like
that.

now, i'm ready to learn. that is what we are here for.

can you name or give an example of where you can lower psa levels and
NOT affect cancer growth? i will admit it, i could not.

i hope i've explained the purpose of why i answer the question the way i
did.

again, we've all paid our dues to the club and i for one, am not about
to give the wrong information out on purpose. it is a very serious
subject and we have to understand how it works in order to understand
how to beat or control the disease.

i have been very impressed on how well this newsgroup has pulled
together and helped each other. i offered what i could when my dad had
pca, then when i got pca, the newsgroup helped me, and now i want to
give back and make it full circle.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional

bldn10@midsouth.rr.com (bill

As far as I am concerned, Curtis, this is just a lively intellectual
discussion. Hopefully, someone in the NG including myself will find
something of value in it.

"i should have said that when male mormoes are shut of, the psa-making
process MAY stop instead of saying the psa-making process IS stopped.
btw, the reference to that is found in dr. walsh's book page 353"

That statement is indeed there and I admit I am a little perplexed by
it. It follows the statement that w/ HT the tumor shrinks and PSA
level drops, and I read that as being a cause and an effect - PSA
drops because the tumor has shrunk and there are fewer cells cranking
out PSA. However, he then states that PSA production [in
hormone-dependent cells] is controlled by hormones. This is indeed
support for your premise and I apologize for overlooking it. On the
other hand, I am not convinced it is biochemically correct so I will
try do some research on it. If that is right it would seem that there
should be a correlation between PSA and testosterone level in healthy
men but I am not aware of that being the case.

One thing is certain and that is that the human body is one heck of a
complicated piece of work and the further we get into it and begin to
learn what makes it tick, the more complicated we find it to be.

"the poster wanted to know that if medication that lowers psa would
affect cancer growth. i would still have to say yes. now, i noticed
that when you posted, you put word "or" in part of your answer. and
from that view point, may be why it is being seen like that."

I can't find the post now but I am pretty sure he asked if treatment
that lowers PSA affects cancer growth OR just lowers PSA.

"can you name or give an example of where you can lower psa levels and
NOT affect cancer growth? i will admit it, i could not."

Yes. Antibiotics like Cipro lower PSA in men w/ prostatitis but I
haven't heard that they have any affect on PCa. I think that is what
had the original poster confused - he may have heard about men
reducing their elevated PSA w/ Cipro and wondered if that was a PCa
treatment. That is why I was so quick to dispel any notion that PSA is
the target of PCa treatment. Other than that, I do not know of a
substance that directly lowers PSA w/o any effect on PCa, but it is
conceivable since [beating the dead horse one last time] PCa does not
need PSA to grow.

On another topic, do you or anyone know of an existing, umbrella PCa
support organization of which local chapters can be established?

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
Memphis

roachable@aol.comneat (danny

<snip>
If the medicine actually attacks the psa molecule and only the psa molecule,
the psa may go down but the cancer is totally unaffected. So there may be
medicines that do not affect cancer growth but do lower psa- some herbal mixes
may be doing that.