joel m. eichen d.d.s.

I have had some dental patients with incomes of $1 million per year
and up. This is surely one very desirable type of dental patient.

But that is not all. That is not everybody.

A Wal-Mart employee cannot be satisfactorily treated by offering a
$20,000 treatment plan.

That's just dentistry's way of detaching from the needs of people and
letting others worry about it!


Joel


--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

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aylacaralia1

So, what do you see as a good compromise between the general public not caring,
and everyone having access to dental care?

My compromise would be simple. If I had been able to see a dentist regularly,
and get my teeth cleaned, then the areas that are aas bad as they are now,
would not exist at all. I think that everyone should be able to go in for
regular cleanings, and exams. This way problems can be caught before they
become way to expensive to handle. Fillings and cavity removal type stuff at a
reduced price. Cosmetic dentistry should be full price for the patient, as it
is not necessary.

This could be accomplished in a few ways. One, sliding scale fees. The bigger
cities and such offer dental care at sliding scale fees for the residents of
those cities. The rural areas however, don't.

Another way would be if dentists were required to do a certain percentage of
"pro bono" work each year.

And the solution that everyone would dislike the most, having an added tax,
just a few cents worth, to food items such as candy, cookies, soda, imitation
juices, and fast food that would go directly into a dental care fund for those
that can not afford dental care on their own. Everyone buys this type of stuff
at some point in their lives. If every bag of potato chips had just two cents
added on for the dental care tax, if every candy bar had just two cents, every
soda pop, it could almost easily fund dental care. Think about the amount of
money that McDonald's and Pizza Hut pull in each year! Two percent of that
money going to whatever town that resteraunt is in would go a long way.

Ayla

aylacaralia1

It just seems to me that good dental care is medically necessary for good
health. If you can't eat properly, then you will get sick more often.

Also, a person whose teeth are bad, are less likely to get a decently paying
job, no matter how well they are qualified for it. It absolutely infuriates me
that I am not the only person going through this tangle. And it infuriates me
more that people like me are swept to the side everyday.


I wonder how one would go about getting something like this set up in their
communities? This is a frustrating situation for people of all income ranges.

Or what about some sort of dental insurance assistance? One that pays more than
twenty five percent of the bill!

I am ashamed to admit that I never thought of this as so important until
recently. I never even realized that there was such a huge problem until
recently either.

Okay, gonna quit rambling now.

orthodmd

interesting ideas.

I'll throw one of my own into the mix: some dentists are educated at private
schools costing upwards of $50,000 (yes that is $200,000+ over four years.
Some are educated at public dental schools where the fees are considerably
lower. Naturally, these schools are funded by taxes of the resdients of those
states.

Dentists edcuated at public dental schools should be required to "give back"
either by donating their time like in the Peace Corps or by doing pro bono
work.

Now one of the short comings of the current system is that the Federal
Government tells us we have to do pro bono work (they pay essentially 40 cents
on the dollar and the average overhead is 60%) and we MUST schedule these pro
bono patients into our regular schedules

Why not ask us to schedule Friday mornings as pro bono day, overschedule a
little because we all know pro bono work brings in patients who have a high
failure rate than fee for service patients? If you ask the Feds, they tell you
that you have to work for free and then treat the patient the same way you
treat someone who pays the going rate. Not fair and not going to work.
Charlie Ruff, DMD
Specialist in Orthodontics
Diplomate American Board of Orthodontics

aylacaralia1

So dentists are currently required to do pro bono work, or did I misunderstand?

Actually, that is not a bad idea. Two fridays a month, pro bono day.

I can see where this would seem unfair to you, in the present. But you know,
poor people have friends and family that aren't poor. They also have kids, that
grow up and wind up doing very well for themselves. Not to mention, not all
poor people remain poor for all their lives.

When I first moved to my town, my son got very ill. He was only a year old at
the time. Well, I wound up taking him to the emergency room, where he was given
a shot of penicillian. Hours later, my son had an allergic reaction to the
peniciallian. The hospital was half an hour away by car, and I had no car. I
had been lucky enough to hitch a ride the first time I took him.There was no
way we could get back there.

So I called every doctor in town. At the time, I did not have medicaid for the
kids, and I just moved here. I had no job or money either. No doctor would see
my son. Not even the one that advertised that he took care of minor
emergencies.

I called about ten different doctors in town. They all said no. Then I called
the last one, number eleven.

I talked to the receptionist, who spoke with the doctor. Doc said bring him in.
She gave my son a shot to counteract the allergic reaction that he was having,
and also became his regular pediatrician. She told me that she would bill me
for the visit.

Six years later, I am still waiting for that bill. She has treated both of my
children even when I had no money. They do have medicaid now though, and soon
hopefully, will have full medical insurance. This woman gets money for the care
of my kids each time she sees them now.

When someone asks me "who is a good doctor?" I send them to her. Directly. And
I tell them how she helped my kids and I. I even took out a letter to the
editor once, and her business really boomed.

She did not treat me or my son as though we were some low class person that
could not pay for treatment. She treated us like people, and gave us the same
treatment that she gives to her paying patients.

So yeah, you are right when you say that treated them the same as everyone else
isn't fair. It isn't fair in the short term. But we have mouths. We talk. Word
spreads quickly.

The dentist that takes me on will have my business and the business of my
children for years to come. When I finish school, I will be qualified to find
work that has a starting salary of $85,000 a year! Might be just peanuts to
you, sir, but that is quite a bit for us. And the dentists and other health
care professionals that I pick will see some of that money. I already have a
pediatrician.

Treat me with dignity, respect, and to the best of your abilities now when I
have no money, and you earn my respect and my future business when I do have
money.

Ayla

dr. steve

I don't have the solution, but will point out that if you try to solve it
with taxes, the politicians will soon take the money to buy whatever they
want instead. Here in Michigan, the government just eliminated Medicaid
dental care (except for emergencies) for the over 21 year olds. They needed
the money to support some scheme.

--
+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan USA
..dr.steve@man.cuso.d.d.s.com.
smancus@this.adress.should.now.bounce.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

aylacaralia1

They did the same thing here in Texas years ago, except no emergency dental
care either. And unfortunately, you are correct in that the taxes would be
confiscated by the politicians.

There is nothing about my case that makes me special or more deserving of
dental care. I am one of many that go through this sort of thing. Even those
with moderatly decent income can not afford dental care. It just makes sense to
me though, that dental care should be included in the medical care package.
People with healthy teeth can eat healthy foods. If they eat healthier foods,
the live healthier lives. Less illness. People with healthier teeth can get
jobs that they are qualified for instead of being doomed to living off of a
McDonald's paycheck, and food stamps for the rest of their lives.

It just *makes sense* to me, ya know? But the politician's care more about
money than anything else. Setting up a plan like I described would backfire, as
later on the politician's would earmark that money for something else. Mostly
for lining their own pockets.

dr. steve

Sounds like we agree.

--
+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan USA
..dr.steve@man.cuso.d.d.s.com.
smancus@this.adress.should.now.bounce.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Mostly

dr. steve

A small dental office can easily have an hourly overhead of $175-275 per
hour. Add into the mix that some time needs to be scheduled with procedures
which generate no fees at all, and the fact some people are inconsiderate
and make long appointments and fail to show up, and you end up with higher
fees.

--
+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-+=_-
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan USA
..dr.steve@man.cuso.d.d.s.com.
smancus@this.adress.should.now.bounce.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

or

joel m. eichen d.d.s.

I had the sliding scale not out of any philosophical concern but
because it was good business to do so ... VERY good business once the
word got around! Of course the patients benefitted too!


Joel

On 07 Sep 2003 20:58:55 GMT, aylacaralia1@aol.com (AylaCaralia1)


--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>