dr. andrew b. chung, md/phd

From Dr. Barry Sears (2/24/2000):

"Finally, the longer you stay in ketosis, you begin to oxidize
lipoproteins, so these are long-term consequences which begin to explain
why high protein diets fail."

Source:

http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/Seminars/GND/Proceedings.txt

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

matti narkia

Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:27:48 -0400 in article <3F9944F3.CA87B06@heartmdphd.com>


- The text is from March, 2000. We know now much more about
LC diets.

- Sears does dot substantiate his claims with references.

- Typically, ketosis in LC diet lasts about 3 months, that's
hardly long-term.

- Sears has his own Zone diet to promote, and therefore his own agenda.

- Zone diet is also low-carb diet, Sears dos not seem object LC diets, but
high protein and high carb diets.

- Sears practically assassinates your low-fat high-carb hero's Dr. Ornish's
diet. Do you agree with him about that, too? If not, why are you so
choosy?

--
Matti Narkia

sufein

x-no-archive: yes

You got that right!

You got that wrong. It lasts as long as one eats less than 100gms carb per
day. See The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald. page 73? Lots of references to
the research.


He's a huckster for sure.

The Zone is moderate carb, but not below 100gms per day for most folks, which
is the generally accepted threshold for low carb.

It's certainly lower than most folks eat, though.


Susan

dr. andrew b. chung, md/phd

They remain "ketogenic."


That's ok, we've already done that for the readers of these threads here at SMC.


Then it should be easy for you to refute his statements. Afterall, he only has
his agenda to back them up (or so you claim).
We'll be waiting.

Is it your claim that the Zone diet is ketogenic?


Ime, I have not seen coronary disease in folks who have lost to and maintained
near-ideal body weight following the Ornish diet. However, I have not had much
success with starting and keeping folks on the Ornish diet in the past (before
conceiving the 2PD approach). On the other hand, the 2PD approach has worked wonderfully: http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

See above.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

matti narkia

24 Oct 2003 16:57:15 GMT in article
<20031024125715.22618.00000059@mb-m25.aol.com> sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan )


Well, what I wrote is basically what Foster et al say in

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/348/21/2082

And as I mentioned in another message, Westman claims in

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

that ketosis in adults can be prevented by a daily CHO intake of about 50 g.
I think we need some references to settle these issues. Unfortunately I
don't have Lyle McDonald's book. Perhaps I try to acquire it.

If you say so, I don't know much about him.

Ok, it has about 40% carbs I think, so it's definitely not very low carb,
but some Medline authors criticizing Zone, call it low carb. But I agree,
perhaps moderate carb is a better description.


Yep.


--
Matti Narkia

matti narkia

Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:43:00 -0400 in article
<3F9972B4.67D70191@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"


So? No proof has been presented that ketosis in LC diets is harmful.

You are grossly mistaken.


So you think 3 months is long term?

Burden of the proof is on the person who presents the claim.


That's not an issue here, but no. Neither are other LC diets as soon as
their carb intake is after initiation phase increased to a certain, still
fairly low level, which according Westman is 50 g/d and according to Susan
100 g/d.

--
Matti Narkia

valley of mu_n

Interesting.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031021.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

sufein

x-no-archive: yes

x-no-archive: yes


Actually, it's according to Lyle McDonald's exhaustive and well referenced
research in The Ketogenic Diet. Page 73, IIRC.

100 gms per day is the ketogenic threshold.

Susan

dr. andrew b. chung, md/phd

When would you like to revisit the topic of hyperketonemia?

I write truthfully.


Ime, folks on ketogenic LC diets have "ketone breath" for the duration that they are
on the diet (ie they have hyperketonemia for as long as they are on the diet).

It is your claim that Sears made the statement regarding the harmful effects of
ketosis (aka hyperketonemia) to promote his Zone diet.

We'll continue to wait for your proof.

Then why are you calling it "also (ketogenic) low-carb diet" ?


For ketogenic LC diets, when carbs are increased, weight loss typically reverses.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

mu_n of mars

lol

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031024.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.