one_chanceever

About 90 days ago I was prescribed 5mg per day of Androgel by my doc,
after blood tests showed low testosterone (low end of the range). I
also had high SHBG, for which I was prescribed danazol.

The first week the results were GREAT. I felt like a million bucks.
But there has been a slow decrease in libido, well-being and sexual
function...to the point that it now *seems* to be about the same as
before I started the treatment.

The obvious conclusion is that the Androgel has suppressed what
natural production I *did* have before, leaving me back at ground
zero....except I'm relying on adrogel instead of my own production.
But the doctor (supposedly one of the experts in the field) assured me
that 5mg a day of Androgel would NOT suppress my natural production
(though he said that the pellet implants, which he also does, WOULD).

It appears that my testicals have shrunk a bit....but like an idiot I
didn't make any pre-treatment measurements...so I just relying on an
eyeball measurment...but they do seem smaller.

Was the doc wrong? Could I have turned off my already-low levels of T
production? Would Clomid bring me back to where I was before? Can
Clomid and Androgel be used at the same time to raise T levels while
keeping natural levels from falling off?

Many thanks!

arjun lal

There are many possibilities as to why you don't feel as good as when you
first started:

a) your body has become used to the 5g per day of Androgel and you need to
up the dose

b) your body is converting too much of the supplemental testosterone into
estrogen, this will cause you to feel crappy and lower t levels-- symptoms
to look for excess estrogen are sensitive nipples, growth of breasts, hot
flashes

c) your body is not efficiently using the T

And as for androgel suppressing your natural T, chances are it has. I've
read that taking HCG or Clomid will keep your natural test alive while you
take androgel, but I've never experienced this myself.

d hamilton

On 9 Dec 2003 10:38:02 -0800, one_chanceever@yahoo.com (onechance)


I used Androgel for about 6 weeks. Prior to that use my T registered
147 on a scale of 300 to 1000. After finding this newsgroup I
discontinued use as I thought I should have more tests. The next test
turned up a level of 36 (300 - 1000).

I went to an Endo 6 weeks later who did some more testing. My
prolactin was very high and was supressing my T -- which had rebounded
to pre-Androgel levels; it was 146 (300 - 1000).

It would seem the Androgel did supress my own T production (which, I
pretty sure I'd read here would happen). If I recall correctly, there
are members of this group that say stopping androgel will result in
the body going back to self-producing T ... there are others who say
the opposite. Maybe it depends on length of use.

pony

Your doctors is absolutely INCORRECT. 5gm of Androgel will cause your own T
production to stop. You feel good at first because you have your own T and
the T you absorb from the Androgel. But then your own T stops and you can
end up with a lower T level because you're not absorbing enough.

I was on Androgel for about 2 months after testing 193 T level. On 5 gm I
felt fantastic, like a teenager for a few days, then felt awful. Upped my
dose to 10 gm, and felt better, but was unhappy with the achy, shrinking
testicles, achy prostate, and reduced ejaculate.

They probably are. You also probably have very few sperm in your semen now.


Yes, and yes.


If I could find a doctor who would give me a Clomid stimulation test then
I'd tell you, but I haven't been able to locate one (besides Dr. Shippen,
but he's too far away). I ended up quitting Androgel and taking Tribulus
Terrestris, HGH, Zinc, and L-Arginine. I went through about 3 weeks of zero
sex drive after quitting the Androgel. My experience is far from scientific
but I think the HGH is helping more than anything else. The good news is my
testicles are big again. Whew! And my sex drive is better than before I
started this whole business. Not that I have that "like a teenager"
horniness that starting Androgel gave me, but I'm definitely feeling better
than I was before. You can find more information about herbal treatment of
low testosterone here: http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/hormones.html

I don't think so. The presence of exogenous (external) testosterone tells
your own production to shut down. I think you'd have to quit Androgel and
take Clomid and then get tested. If the Clomid worked then you could try
Clomid, hCG, or Selegeline as therapy (if you can find a doctor who's
willing). I think that's a better way to go than TRT, which as you're
discovering has its drawbacks.

Good luck,
Pony

tallen2_34

Hey Pony, what were you T-levels before and after the Androgel? Have
you had them tested recently when off?

Also, how did you get your Dr. to prescribe HGH?

one_chanceever

Thanks very much Pony....I very much appreciate your in-depth answer.
Clomid CAN be had over the Net, as I'm sure you know. But you'd be
self-prescribing and taking your chances.

pony

I had 2 tests before starting Androgel, the first one 193 Total T and the
second 383 Total T. I didn't have a test on 5gm Androgel, but I felt awful.
After about a week of 10gm Androgel I scored 777 Total T (and was feeling
good and horny). I haven't had a blood test since the 777 one and I've given
up on the doctors. I bought the HGH (oral, not prescription injectable) at
the same "health" store where I got the Tribulus Terrestris.

Pony

pony

Don't think I haven't been tempted. You should do a google search for posts
by David Zolt. He's a patient of Dr. Shippen and has been on hCG. Very
informative.

Pony