larry foley

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this question. I am a
male 44 and my wife is 29. We have been trying to conceive for the last
year and a half and it included 3 IUIs without injectibles and 1 IUI
with injectibles. Our insurance doesn't cover anything and that is
fine. I am just simply frustrated paying for something without any
guarantee on a return. Our Fertility Specialist Doctor said that IVF is
the next step and is trying to convince us to go that route given that
my wife is still young and chances are good.

Here is some data:
1) During our last try of IUI with injectibles, my sperm was diagnosed
with antibodies present in 68% of the sperm
2) Sperm count was excellent
3) Sperm motility was 48% (diminished due to the attached antibodies)

The specialist insists that IVF is the way to go however refuses to
tell me that there is NO chance conceiving naturally. I asked him that
question due to anti-bodies in the semen analysis. My wife and I would
try IVF however we are looking for one of the two answers:

1) IVF guarantees a pregnancy (We know that it definitely does not)

OR

2) There is no way to concieve with anti-bodies present in the sperm

Has anyone who is reading this, ever conceived inspite of your male
partner having anti-bodies present in their sperm? Did the couple do
anything special to make it happen? I am looking to save ourselves from
a financial ruin and am willing to live on a hope and a prayer
(conceive naturally) rather than face a financial ruin.

Help Please

Larry.

kim

i am no expert but i would think that there could be a chance of
conceiving naturally, however i do not know how great the odds are.
with ivf, they would probably do icsi to ensure that the egg is
fertilized. icsi involves a needle injecting a single sperm into the
egg. my specialist performs it on all patients undergoing ivf,
regardless if there are any sperm related issues or not.

as for change of diet, nutrition etc... i am not sure if that can
change the antibodies. maybe some one here can add to this.

as for if ivf guarantees a pregnancy, the answer is no. it does
increase your chances. however, how much depends on so many factors
(age, cause of infertility, etc..)

i hope this helps some. others may respond and will be able to add to
this.

kim

sue

Hi Larry - I cannot answer the specific questions you've written - but
I can answer the one that really seems to be on your mind: will "you*
be able to get your wife pregnant naturally? The answer is - nobody
knows. It kind of reminds of all the women who post "symptoms" in the
hopes that someone, anyone, will tell them that yes, they're pregnant -
but the truth is, no one knows that answers. These are questions that
only time can tell...

Unfortunately, just because someone else has been successful in a
similiar situation does not necessarily reflect what could happen in
your situation. Is it possible for you to get your wife pregnant?
Well.. if your antibodies affect 68% of your sperm, then logically, you
have 32% still viable. While low, that would be enough to make a baby.

Having said that, according to the research, IVF is the absolute best
treatment in your situation. Your wife is still young but her odds of
conceiving will start to decline quite rapidly in the next few years.
Why not set a goal that you're going to try on your own for 2 years,
and during this time, put aside a little bit of money to defray the
cost of IVF. If - hopefully - you can conceive naturally during this
time, that little nest egg will go nicely into a college fund.

Also - in the meantime - why don't you focus on making your "good"
sperm as healthy as possible? Do a quick google of this ng and find out
about nutrition that can increase the potency of your swimmers.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!
Sue

christy1966

Hi Larry,
I love that you are looking for answers. My husband has sperm stuff
too.
His is motility and count. I am not sure about the anti bodies and how
that effects how the sperm fertilizes the egg. But my husband has
changed his diet completely, he is off caffeine and sugar and is not
drinking. He eats really healthy now and is taking mens fertility blend
vitamins and working out. We have had one round of IVF and it did not
work, we are looking to try again in the next few months. My husband
really wants to do it the old fashion way too, so we are going to
Jamaica in 4 days for 2 weeks and giving it one last hurrah!
Good luck!
I also know that each time he gets his sperm checked its a bit
different, so I think the diet and vitamins have been helping him.
Christy

tryn4two

Larry,

Does your IVF center have different options as to being able to finance
IVF? Ours offers several different types of options, and has a money
back guaruntee, on one of the plans... We are going the route of fund
raising.... We decided long ago- that we were going to try to raise
the money by making a web page and asking for donations... and having
spaggetti suppers! My hubbie and myself were told last year that i was
unable to conceive naturally- despite me already having a child over 7
years ago- naturally.... go figure-- We went to our first IVF
appointment last week and are now in the IVF planning stages-- Good
luck on what ever you both decide... We are all here for you!

jennifer

larry foley

Christy:

I wish you all the best in Jamaica and please report back should it
work (I am sure you will).
You know, it is not that I cannot affort it. I certainly can afford it.
The issue that I have a tough time dealing with is that what if this
thing goes 2 or 3 cycles? Human nature strives for success and if one
try fails it inclines us to try again and knowing ourselves that is
sure to happen. The trouble is that if IVF tries goes beyond one try
then we will end up being in a financial situation which will be very
undesirable. I mean I will buy my wife the world as long as I know I
WILL get the world for my money. I, somehow, am having a tough time
"gambling". Granted that the reward is great however with me being
numbers and statistics oriented, it is difficult for me to risk money
with a less than or equal to a 50% chance of success at best for an IVF.

I try to tell myself that I am not insensitive to my wife's desire by
thinking of financial impact. How bad do we want a child? We want a
child badly, yes we do however I am faced with two options:
1) IVF with no guarantee (Less than or equal to 50% at best and this
may involve more than 1 cycle)
2) Concieve naturally (I have anti-bodies attached to 58% - 68% of the
sperm). Sperm Count is excellent however motility is affected by the
attached anti-bodies to those sperm while the good ones can swim fine.
Apparently there is no cure for male sperm anti-bodies.

So, we are not infertile. We are subfertile.
Someone mentioned in a reply to my initial post to make a goal. Try
naturally for a few months and then try IVF. I am obviously leaning
toward that.

It would be interesting to hear from those couples which were diagnosed
with male sperm antibodies. By the way the antibodies in the sperm are
usually present in men who have had a vasectomy and then reversed it. I
just want to be clear that I have had no such operation and there is no
explanation why I have the antibodies.

Maybe I will see your Jamaica and raise you a Las Vegas!

Larry.


On 2006-09-03 17:19:29 -0500, "Christy1966" <christy@bayareaacting.com> said:

amy signaigo

Just removing the cross-post. If anyone else replies to this message,
please make sure to do the same!

(Larry, because the primary groups and secondary groups are two entirely
separate sets of people in very different emotional places, we ask that you
post to the group which is appropriate for you. Primary is for people with
no biological children, secondary is for people who have one or more
biological children at home. For more info please see
http://www.fertilityplus.com/toc.html#ng, where info about the infertility
newsgroups is located)

Thanks very much!

amy signaigo

Sorry, I should add, since you are looking for success stories of a sort,
you may want to try alt.infertility.secondary, or alt.infertility.pregnancy,
or alt.infertility.parenting. You are also welcome to post here, in
primary, since it sounds as though you don't have any children. The other
groups will all have participants who do have children or are currently
pregnant, and you are welcome to post there as well. It's better netiquette
form for the infertility groups to post separately to each one though,
rather than cross-post to all the groups at once. Not a big deal not to
have realized this. It just helps to keep the replies to the appropriate
groups (people with children may reply to your post, and not see that
primary is on the list, and inadvertently hurt someone in primary by
discussing a success story).

Sorry I can't help on the issue of antibodies, my infertility is all me.
:-( But good for you for looking for the answers! We also have some
participants, here and in other groups, who built their families through
adoption, in part because of some of the emotional uncertainty of IVF that
you describe. Not that adoption is easy either, because it certainly is
not, but some of those who have gone through it have expressed that they
felt more certain of a positive outcome throughout their adoption journey
than they had during their infertility journey. I hope some of those people
will respond to your post also.

Good luck to you!

paula

It would be so nice if IVF came with guarantees wouldn't it? We have had to
fund everything ourselves, to the tune of around $12k so far for a full
cycle and a cancelled cycle. We are hoping to try one more cycle next year
before we stop doing IVF and look at other options, so I guess by the end of
it we will be down $20k. And for two hard working folks, that's not easy -
but it's worth every penny, success or not. I don't want to look back in a
few years and regret not giving it all we had...

Best wishes to you. I'd also, like the other posts say, increase your
chances of natural success in any way you can - herbs, acupuncture, etc...

Paula

christy1966

Larry,
You know it sounds like you and my husband are a lot alike. We are in
the same situation. We can afford it, he would prefer a gaurantee. So,
we did get with our doctor
a shared risk plan, so that we get two cycles if the first one does not
work. And it did not work. I have to say that did not include meds. And
they were close to $4,000.
I needed extra injectables.
Our first cycle was close to $25,000. We are getting the second cycle
free but again that does not include meds or PGD testing which was
another $4,000 or $4500 I cannot remember. So, yes it adds up. We just
cannot think about the money, we are just focusing on our vacation and
then starting another round. Because I am almost 40 we cannot wait. If
I were younger I would say lets try it on our own for a while longer.
Anyway, not sure if that helps.
Good luck!
Christy