arnie macy

I have been T-2 for a little over a year, and in that time, I have brought
my BGs to an average of 110 and A1C to under 6. I did this on the very good
advice of my MD (who recommended low carb and frequent testing) and reading
a *lot* on the net. Today, I attended a diabetes class for the first time
(took over 3 months to even get an appointment) Long story short, I heard
the same tired old crap. Cut out *all* sugar, keep the A1c under 7, 200-250
grams of carbs a day is okay as long as you spread it out. Any BG under 180
is okay, testing once a day is okay as long as you vary the times (all of
them before eating) and blah blah blah. When, dear Lord, will they
understand that this kind of advice makes things worse not better for us? I
kept my mouth shut (I didn't want to get in a *urinating* contest with the
instructor) -- but I will not be going back. Thank goodness there are
groups, like *this* one, available to get out the correct info. My concern
is that the other people who attended that class will take that bogus advice
to heart -- Just have to shake my head.

Note: 250 gms carbs div by 3 meals a day = 83 gms of carbs a meal (how can
that possibly be good for any diabetic?)

Arnie -

jenny

The ADA will learn only when some brave souls get together a class action
suit and threaten them with some serious damage for teaching outmoded and
dangerous dietary advice and promoting as safe levels of blood sugar now
known to lead to serious complications.

I'm not holding my breath.

-- Jenny
168.5/141
9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?

arnie macy

It may well be too much, but you're also forgetting about carbs in snacks
among those 250g. I don't eat 250g of carbs per day, but I do spread out my
carbs in 5-7 "eating occasions".
__________________________________________________ _________________________

Thanks for the comments, bj. They were well thought out. Like you, I try
and eat 4-6 meals a day, which includes two or three snacks (crackers for me
usually). I did think about that and tried to be conservative when I
considered snacks. Here was my thought. If I'm an average person and I
have two snacks a day at 40 gms carbs per snack, that still leaves three
meals at an average of 56 gms carbs per meal. Still way too high in my
opinion. Of course, I think that 40 gms carbs per snack is high also. Your
thoughts?

Arnie -

arnie macy

The ADA will learn only when some brave souls get together a class action
suit and threaten them with some serious damage for teaching outmoded and
dangerous dietary advice and promoting as safe levels of blood sugar now
known to lead to serious complications. I'm not holding my breath.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Me neither -- and I was just venting. But with folks like you in this
group, we all have a fighting chance.

Arnie -

bj

Somebody's done research on the number (%) of patients who don't even FILL
their prescriptions (for whatever, not just dm), let alone actually take the
pills as directed (another problem). And I am not talking about people who
have trouble affording them -- there are plenty of people who "feel fine,
why bother".
bj

quentin grady

This post not CC'd by email

G'day G'day Al the Elder,

Unfortunately the "ease them in gently" crowd get trapped in their
own deception. At some point they fall under the spell of foolish
consistency and attempt to justify their initial statements with
pseudo scientific backing.

Here then is the crux of the matter.

If the goals are interim goals then what is wrong with being up front
about it?

If their goal is to keep people coming to classes then the presenters
must appear credible. They won't when they are shown to deceive.
Arnie's bullshit detector had a lower threshold than some but IMHO we
all have one.

Best wishes,

I not taking issue with your take on the reasons why they keep
peddling bullshit ... more wondering how the situation can be changed
for the better.

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

priscilla h ballou

bj <bjones44@bellatlantic.net> quoth:

I find this comforting in a kind of sick way. I need to remember it and
pull it out when I read statistics about the percent of diabetics who have
x y or z complication or unpleasant end. I need to remember that I am in
a very odd minority of diabetics -- those who treat their disease
agressively and intelligently. Most of the scary truisms, I believe,
belong to those people who don't fill their prescriptions, follow bad
instructions without thought or further investigation, and live in denial.
Frankly, I don't understand how one can do that, but then I'm pretty
lucky, I think, to have resources that many folks don't like an excellent
brain, a good education, a curious mind (very curious, some would say),
experience with living with longterm chronic conditions, good solid
support, access to the net, time to do research, and so on.

Priscilla
--
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum,
minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
(from topfive.com)

arnie macy

G'day G'day Arnie, Nutritional advice from GPs is a bit like winning Lotto.
If there is a defining characteristic of GPs that will serve one well it
might well be courage. The temptation must be to play it safe and serve up
outdated information because "no one got sued for saying that."

If you had wanted to see a scary movie you would have paid to go and see one.

Someone runs those classes. It isn't only the instructors name that is on
the line. Any adult education course run here has feedback ... at least it
does if run through the tertiary sector. Feedback gets audited. Situation
such as you describe present a moral or ethical dilemma. Whether to say
something or not and to whom should it be said if something is to be said.
These days, I write to broadcasting Standards committees (and adverts get
pulled) and to Cabinet Ministers (I get letters from subordinates of
subordinates assuring me they have it all in hand ... and I write back
explaining why the twenty year old advice they are still accepting will get
them laughed at today.) Long ago I came to realise that one cannot know in
advance whether any particular intervention is going to be effective. It
will all depend on what sort of hair day the recipient is having. The trick
is to pick the recipient who doesn't want to have a bad hair day and has
sufficient subordinates to blame for the past.

Fair enough ...though it needs pointing out that you have already gone
beyond shaking your head. You have posted here and the world can never be
quite the same again. <grin>
__________________________________________________ _________________________

My posting here was more of a rant than anything else; however, I am now
seriously considering contacting the Higher Higher of that group after
reading your post. If I do or say nothing, I become part of the problem.
Thanks for the thought.

Arnie -

arnie macy

Somebody's done research on the number (%) of patients who don't even FILL
their prescriptions (for whatever, not just dm), let alone actually take the
pills as directed (another problem). And I am not talking about people who
have trouble affording them -- there are plenty of people who "feel fine,
why bother".
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Before my dx I was running a BG in the mid 400's. I felt "Fine" by my
standards. But after being in the 110's, Feeling "Fine" has a whole new
meaning.

Arnie -

jenny

Well, the "modest goals" are a lot HARDER to reach than the more stringent
ones, because the high carb levels ensure that most people are on a blood
sugar roller coaster that leaves them feeling starved when they try to eat
the recommended reducing diet.

A true low carb diet, after a couple days of adaptation, is a lot easier to
stick with than the high carb diet because the tormenting hunger goes away.

The other problem is that many people do not realize what is at stake. I
know that one dear friend really has no idea what "diabetic complications"
mean in plain english. The general market books don't tell you. I've read at
least 3 that mentioned you could avoid complications by controlling blood
sugar without ever defining "complications."

Finally, people who have seen the ravages of the disease in their families
and DO know what complications are tend to be very fightened. They need to
be told much more clearly that complications can be avoided by controlling
blood sugar. Unfortunately, too many of them (that I run into, anyway) are
still following the old "keep your blood sugar under 200" advice and their
complications are advancing.

-- Jenny
168.5/141
9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?