acoftil

We find such questions insulting. The pain of fibromyalgia has been proven in a
series of brain scans. Some arcane people still think it's an AIYH disorder, it
is NOT. Do your own research.

What may be confusing is that we often use anti-depressants to help us SLEEP,
not because we are depressed. Do you see the distinction?

Nancy

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:45:27 -0500, "FibroDorf" <Fibro@Dorf.com> etched
permanently into the ether:

acoftil

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:36:54 -0800, acoftil <gnn4everZ@surewest.net> etched
permanently into the ether:


First of all, the term "psychosomatic" is out of date. The term, "psychogenic"
is preferred, because it includes disorders that are psychological in nature and
it includes disorders that the brain causes (medical issues, such as MS, TIA's,
etc.).


But, then how do you explain the fact that I have both fibro and bipolar
disorder. I've had fibromyalgia for 11 years and been in therapy for 30 years.
How do you explain the onset of fibromyalgia, if I've already been shrunk?

My therapist and pdoc know it's real. It's time for you to wake up and stop
insulting people.

Nancy

mark thorson

Just being in therapy doesn't mean you'll make progress.
If you resist therapy, you won't make progress.
The therapist and patient must form a the****utic
alliance. See, for example:

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~ejeglic/760Lecture2.htm

acoftil

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:19:39 -0800, Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> etched permanently into the ether:

I don't know what that site has to do with fibromyalgia. It is solely a working
do***ent to train therapists in a certain method, which, btw is old as dirt and
that's because it works.

To basically sum up the site:
"l Typically, if client has difficulty with TA, generally has difficulty with
other relationships in their life"

This is only one method of psychotherapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy works
well with people who are bipolar 2. And there are other methods being used. And
my therapist likes to combine methods and treatment if the patient warrants.

And think about a schizophrenic. Any alliance you may form is tentative at
best.

Please visit news:alt.support.depression.manic.moderated for a patient's
perspective. Most everyone is gone right now--can you guess why?

Nancy

mark thorson

It's relevant because it answers your question
about why your experience in psychotherapy has
not resolved your fibromyalgia. Resisting
psychotherapy renders it useless. Psychotherapy
is only effective when the patient forms
a the****utic alliance with the therapist.

In resistant cases, psychiatric drugs and
electroshock sometimes can be effective because
they give the patient "permission" to let go
of their resistance. One or both of these
psycho-physiological treatments can give the
patient an opportunity to allow the condition
to resolve, without admitting to any role
in its creation.

saavik

Or perhaps because fibromyalgia is not a psychiatric condition.
Do try to update your qualifications on the subject past the previous
decade before you spout such outdated nonsense. Neither Fibromyalgia nor
CFIDS (ME) are psychosomatic illnesses.

Margo

saavik

Or perhaps because fibromyalgia is not a psychiatric condition.
Do try to update your qualifications on the subject past the previous
decade before you spout such outdated nonsense. Neither Fibromyalgia nor
CFIDS (ME) are psychosomatic illnesses.

Margo

mark thorson

Perhaps you didn't see the Belgian study I cited before
someone expanded the crossposting. In this study,
CFIDS and fibromyalgia subjects were compared with
a control group of subjects who had problems of
similar severity but known to be purely physiological
in origin (multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis).

When the CFS and fibromyalgia subjects were
compared against the MS and RA subjects,
the CFS/FM group had significantly higher
depression and anxiety levels. These people
were more preoccupied and distressed by events
in daily life.

This is strong evidence that CFS and fibromyalgia
are psychosomatic problems, which occur in
people with hypersensitive personalities.


Psychother Psychosom. 2002 Jul-Aug;71(4):207-13.
Daily hassles reported by chronic fatigue syndrome
and fibromyalgia patients in tertiary care: a controlled
quantitative and qualitative study.
Van Houdenhove B, Neerinckx E, Onghena P, Vingerhoets A,
Lysens R, Vertommen H.
Faculty of Medicine, K.U. Leuven, Leuven, Belgium.

BACKGROUND: This study aimed at providing insight in the
frequency, emotional impact and nature of daily hassles,
experienced by patients suffering from chronic fatigue
syndrome (CFS) and/or fibromyalgia (FM), compared with
patients with a chronic organic disease.

METHODS: One hundred and seventy-seven CFS/FM patients,
26 multiple sclerosis (MS) and 26 rheumatoid arthritis
(RA) patients were investigated within 2-6 months after
diagnosis. All patients completed a self-report
questionnaire assessing daily hassles and associated
distress, a visual ****ogue scale assessing fatigue and
pain and a depression and anxiety questionnaire.

RESULTS: CFS/FM patients show a higher frequency of
hassles, higher emotional impact and higher fatigue,
pain, depression and anxiety levels compared with
MS/RA patients. Three hassle themes dominate in the
CFS/FM group: dissatisfaction with oneself, insecurity
and a lack of social recognition. In contrast, hassles
reported by MS/RA patients show a much larger diversity
and are not focused on person-dependent problems.

CONCLUSIONS: Patients recently diagnosed as suffering
from CFS and/or FM are highly preoccupied and
distressed by daily hassles that have a severe impact
on their self-image, as well as their personal, social
and professional functioning. An optimal the****utic
approach of CFS and FM should take account of this
heavy psychosocial burden, which might refer to core
themes of these patients' illness experience.

mark thorson

Perhaps you didn't see the Belgian study I cited before
someone expanded the crossposting. In this study,
CFIDS and fibromyalgia subjects were compared with
a control group of subjects who had problems of
similar severity but known to be purely physiological
in origin (multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis).

When the CFS and fibromyalgia subjects were
compared against the MS and RA subjects,
the CFS/FM group had significantly higher
depression and anxiety levels. These people
were more preoccupied and distressed by events
in daily life.

This is strong evidence that CFS and fibromyalgia
are psychosomatic problems, which occur in
people with hypersensitive personalities.


Psychother Psychosom. 2002 Jul-Aug;71(4):207-13.
Daily hassles reported by chronic fatigue syndrome
and fibromyalgia patients in tertiary care: a controlled
quantitative and qualitative study.
Van Houdenhove B, Neerinckx E, Onghena P, Vingerhoets A,
Lysens R, Vertommen H.
Faculty of Medicine, K.U. Leuven, Leuven, Belgium.

BACKGROUND: This study aimed at providing insight in the
frequency, emotional impact and nature of daily hassles,
experienced by patients suffering from chronic fatigue
syndrome (CFS) and/or fibromyalgia (FM), compared with
patients with a chronic organic disease.

METHODS: One hundred and seventy-seven CFS/FM patients,
26 multiple sclerosis (MS) and 26 rheumatoid arthritis
(RA) patients were investigated within 2-6 months after
diagnosis. All patients completed a self-report
questionnaire assessing daily hassles and associated
distress, a visual ****ogue scale assessing fatigue and
pain and a depression and anxiety questionnaire.

RESULTS: CFS/FM patients show a higher frequency of
hassles, higher emotional impact and higher fatigue,
pain, depression and anxiety levels compared with
MS/RA patients. Three hassle themes dominate in the
CFS/FM group: dissatisfaction with oneself, insecurity
and a lack of social recognition. In contrast, hassles
reported by MS/RA patients show a much larger diversity
and are not focused on person-dependent problems.

CONCLUSIONS: Patients recently diagnosed as suffering
from CFS and/or FM are highly preoccupied and
distressed by daily hassles that have a severe impact
on their self-image, as well as their personal, social
and professional functioning. An optimal the****utic
approach of CFS and FM should take account of this
heavy psychosocial burden, which might refer to core
themes of these patients' illness experience.

mark thorson

Perhaps you didn't see this English study
I cited before someone expanded the crossposting.
It found that somatization disorder is predictive
in determining who will later develop fibromyalgia.
Somatization is psychosomatic illness.


Arthritis Rheum. 2001 Apr;44(4):940-6.
Features of somatization predict the onset of
chronic widespread pain: results of a large
population-based study.
McBeth J, Macfarlane GJ, Benjamin S, Silman AJ.
Arthritis Research Campaign Epidemiology Unit,
School of Epidemiology and Health Sciences,
University of Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: Chronic widespread pain, the clinical
hallmark of the fibromyalgia syndrome, is associated
with other physical and psychological symptoms both
in patients studied in a clinical setting and in
those identified in the community. The present study
was undertaken to examine the hypothesis that
psychological and physical indicators of the process
of somatization predict the development of new
chronic widespread pain.

METHODS: In this population-based prospective study,
1,658 adults ages 18-65 years completed a detailed
pain questionnaire, which included a pain drawing.
They also completed the following psychosocial
instruments: General Health Questionnaire, Somatic
Symptom Checklist, Fatigue Questionnaire, and
Illness Attitude Scales. Individuals were followed
up at 12 months, at which time 1,480 (93% of
subjects still living at their baseline address)
provided data on pain status, using the same
instruments.

RESULTS: At baseline, 825 subjects were classified
as pain free and 833 as having pain not satisfying
criteria for chronic widespread pain. Of those,
18 (2%) and 63 (8%), respectively, were classified
as having chronic widespread pain at followup.
After adjustment for age and ***, there were strong
relationships between baseline test scores and
subsequent risk of chronic widespread pain (odds
ratio for the Somatic Symptom Checklist 3.3; odds
ratio for the Illness Behavior subscale of the
Illness Attitude Scales 9.0). All 95% confidence
intervals excluded unity. These associations were
independent of baseline pain status.

CONCLUSION: Subjects who are free of chronic
widespread pain are at increased future risk of
its development if they display other aspects of
the process of somatization. Data from this
population-based prospective study lend powerful
support to the hypothesis that chronic widespread
pain can be one manifestation of the somatization
of distress.