dee

Hello all,

I know that none of you can actually 'make' this decision for me .... but it
helps to get it out, and get other opinions to roll around in my thoughts
.... as I DO try to make the right decision.

A little background: I'm 51, my husband is 55 .. we've been married 8
years, and this is a second marriage for both of us. We only knew each
other for 5 months before getting married, and looking back .... we both
realize that we didn't know each other well enough ... and probably let the
'lust' of the moments get to us. All though I can honestly say that I feel
I'm more mature than he ... and was 'more' ready for a committed marriage
then he was ...

At the moment we're separated ... I'm staying in the house we rent, and he's
sleeping in his van at work. He spends most nights at his brother's house,
working on the race cars .... and when it gets late .. he drives to work (15
mins. away) and sleeps. He's fine with this .. he's the one who decided it
... as he could have gotten a room. I feel terribly guilty about it .. but
he says it's fine.

I suppose you could say we've had troubles off and on for the whole 8 years
.... and yet stayed together because we still loved each other. He always
says he still loves me, and is IN love with me. I feel he is immature, and
unaffectionate .. and neglectful ... yet to hear it from him ... he has done
his best, and been all he could be .. and I'm not satisfied ... and I want
something more than he can offer. Well ... it's hard for you guys to know
... or judge ... but in my eyes, and in my heart ... he's very immature and
will NOT try to work on us ... the marriage .. or the problems.

Several times we've tried counseling ... I've done my part .. he hasn't.
The counselors do say that he doesn't seem to want to do much work ...
'sigh'

NOW .. I need to say ... I realize that we can stay separated and eventually
divorce. I really don't want that .. and think that folks give up way too
easy today, and walk away too often. I hear all the time ... he's too this
.... she's too that .. then LEAVE. Sheesh... come on .. let's try and work
this out .. instead of up and moving on to the next relationship, only to
have different problems.

OH ... and I have sat down with him and lovingly explained how I feel ....
what I need ... what I see that is going on. He's hard to talk to ..
because he doesn't seem to 'hear' me ... but instead says "I would be the
husband you want & need, if you didn't complain and find fault with
everything I 'do' try to do". The thing here is, he 'knows' what I need
(what every woman needs actually) to feel loved and wanted and needed ...
yet he won't do it. It's like he 'passively' maintains this 'control' over
the relationship, that he COULD do these things, but he won't .. and I
should accept him just as he is. I'm REAL confused on that part ... and
would like other men's opinions there.

I love this man with all my heart ... I have endured much unhappiness with
him ... but still want to stand by my vows and keep this marriage. At this
point, I don't know what to do. He says he's 'Off the rollercoaster' ....
and yet, we still share very passionate *** when he comes over and spends
the night. And yes, I do intend to keep having *** with him ... because I
feel in my heart it's the thing to do .. as I AM his wife .. and I do love
him. I want him to know that he can come to me with his ***ual needs.

He's here now, he spent the night last night ... and I want to approach him
later about him coming home ... all though I feel he'll refuse, and I need
to be able to accept that .. I just need to let him know that I don't want
to spend my life without him. I'm not sure how to word it, as he tends to
get very annoyed with me, very easily.

One more quick thing: the thing with his 'brother' ... and the race cars.
When I met him, he was in the 'pitcrew' of his brothers racing team, and
went to the races almost every week-end. After we married, he decided he
couldn't afford it all the time, and we agreed he would only go
occasionally. Well, then things came out about 'the track' as in that's
where his last 'live in lover' ... a ****AGE girl that he left his wife for
.... hung out. I then didn't want to go anymore and was very uncomfortable
with him going. Besides that ... there are young things all over the track,
just waiting to sleep with the guys. When we spoke to the counselor on
this, he advised him not to go to the tracks I was uncomfortable with ....
and to cut down on his time at his brother's house. He was VERY unhappy
about this, and didn't agree. ... many arguments followed. He did cut back
allot ... and for years .. didn't go hardly at all. Now he's back going and
is resentful that he didn't go all those years. 'sigh'

His brother holds a very high position in his eyes ... he can say or do no
wrong. Many times I've had my feelings hurt because he has put him before
me, and the races before me ... and his family before me. Long story there
....

There's LOTS more to tell ... but would like some opinions, thoughts thrown
out ... anything you might see that I don't. How I might approach him with
staying, and what (if anything) I can do on my part to make this work?

Thanks so much!
Hugs,
Dee

roger b.

I'll make this short: Right now, you don't have a marriage.
You have is a P/T boyfriend, who doesn't, can't or won't meet
your definition of a husband. Don't even try to get this square
peg into a round hold. He isn't going to change.

The ball is in your court. You get to decide... Can you accept
his lifestyle or not? If you can, tell him: "I will accept and love
you, just as you are." If not, tell him, "Let's stop pretending
we're married." [Rog']

tbrghtmn

Dee, the only thing I can say to you is back off. You might see your husband's
behavior change. And realize that you have to make a choice. Either accept
this as a way of life with your husband, keep complaining and driving yourself
crazy over it or get out.

shashay doofray

Dee,

In your post you say that all that you want is what ANY WOMAN would want
that is: " to feel loved and wanted and needed ..." I cannot find anything
in your post, other than taking your word for it, that indicates that he is
not doing this.

What do you think that he needs to do to make you feel this way? Bring you
flowers, write you poetry or simply quit hanging out with his brother and
working on race cars?

You seem to have some vague notion that there is "something" that you want
but you have not expressed what it is, except in the most benign terms. Do
you want him to make more money? Would that make you feel more loved,
wanted and needed? You say that you have great *** (and fairly often, from
the sound of it). Right there, I would say that he is showing yoiu that he
loves, wants and needs you. Also, what is he doing with his paycheck? Is
he going out and spending it on himself, or is he paying the rent and
expenses. Sounds pretty much like he loves, wants and needs you there too.

You say you went to counseling and you did your part (but you didn't say
what that was), and yet, he didn't do his part (whatever that is). Could
you be more specific as to what "his part" was supposed to be?

SD


--
-----
Get a complimentary 2 night stay in Las Vegas, find
out how at http://www.ironhorsetravel.com

dee

Hi Sheila,

Will try to respond to your post:

I know I'm not always clear lately .... in my words .. and I do believe it's
because of two things: I have LOADS on my mind ... my plate is TOO full,
and I have Lupus, and my cognitive thinking and logic aren't as clear as
they use to be .... so I don't always get my ideas across as I'd like.

That said: I meant that I sit down at peaceful times and explain to him
what I'm feeling .... specifics that I need from him ... as the counselor
told me to do. I'm very good at communication, and don't hold things from
him, and make him guess what's wrong ... or what I need. I don't play mind
games .. I tell him clearly, so there's no guessing on his part. But even
though I do this, he still doesn't respond ... or react to what I've told
him. In other words, he hears what I'm stating ... and the counselor made
sure he understood what I needed ... yet he still refused to give it to me,
or do it for me .... in example: more affection, touch, *** ... attention,
etc.

It doesn't make any sense sometimes ... how I can be so clear .. yet he
still refuses to respond. His way of seeing it is, that's how I am .... I'm
NOT that way, I don't like to touch, kiss .... and don't need affection
much, or *** often. But you see ... I DO .... and yet even knowing that
..... he just says to me that what if he dissagrees with me needing that much
***, affection or touch? Hmmm??? See what I mean?

Trust me, I AM direct to the point on what it is I need and want ... not
demanding ... but lovingly telling him ... yet he seems to just not hear ...

That's what I meant by him remaining 'passively controling' over our
marriage ...

Does that make it any clearer?
Dee

over

dee

Hiya,

Yes .... I think you're right about backing off ... and I understand about
making a choice ... I'm getting closer ..

Dee


back

and

no

before

there

thrown

with

dee

Phew! Tracey ... lots to address here!! I'll respond in general later
today ...

Hugs,
Dee

dee

Shashay,

OK ... will be more specific ...

Jim does NOT stand for ME ... when his family insults, hurts .... or is rude
to me. He will not say anything to his newphews or his brother, about the
way they talk when I'm around.... very insulting to women, degrading ... and
very filthy language. If I were a man ... I'd let them know that when my
woman was around ... they either watch their mouth .. or we don't GO there.
He won't stop going ... and gets upset at me cause I won't go ...

As for attention ... I mean listening to me when I talk about important
things, instead of falling to sleep .. like he usually does. YES, bringing
me home ANYTHING ... for a surprise .. to say he's thought of me, as I do
him. Even when I tell him specific things I enjoy and like ... he doesn't.

***: we have lots of *** ... but I'm not satisfied. In the beginning, I
explained to him that I needed specific stimulation, and he knew nothing
about the clitoris. When I explained lovingly ... he got impatient, and
asked 'why there, why that'?
That hurt .. but I stayed patient and explained. He just said it was too
much trouble, and because 'I' knew myself best ... that I should do myself.
So it has turned now to me either faking it, or stimulating myself every
time ... sorry, but I don't feel that's right ... but if I push it anymore
.... he just says it's too difficult.

He pays the rent right now, and I need to find a way to pay all the other
bills. I haven't mentioned this until now, I have Lupus ... cfs... fms ...
menier's disease, and deteriation of the disk. I need to find a way to earn
money from home ... as I never know when I'll be hit with either a 'flare'
from my lupus, cfs or fms, or vertigo from the menier's disease. Not sure
you understand vertigo, but when it hits .... you can do NOTHING ... you
can't even move your head! And that can go on for hours .... or days!!

Jim has NEVER picked up a brochure, read a book, did any research, or came
to the doctor's with me, to learn anything about ANY of these conditions!
I've tried to read information to him ... discuss it ... and yet he falls to
sleep!!!

What I meant by doing my part at the counselors .. is that the 'homework' he
gave us, I followed ... suggestions to make Jim feel more loved, stop
finding fault with what he did, and instead praise him for what he did
positive... etc. etc.

Hoped this starts to explain things better ...
Dee

dee

Hiya Herr,

You're right in the fact that I may not be completely happy with myself ...
and some of that is rubbed off on the relationship ... but it's not the
whole problem.

He IS immature ... unaffectionate and neglectful .... those are NOT my
feelings alone, it's what broke up his first marraige ... it's what is
keeping him estranged from his daughter ... and it's what hurt his son for
so many years. To those not married or intimately involved with Jim, he's a
fun outgoing, sweet man. You need to TRY to get close to him, and share
your life with him to really understand.

I dissagree with how you view counseling in some ways, in others ... I
agree. I know NO counselor can know YOU ... and Jim doesn't have much use
for them.
BUT ... on the other hand, they have helped couples tremendously. What the
counselor meant when he told Jim to cool down on the racing and his family,
is that until we get OUR marriage straightened out .. his family comes
second to me ... and he was putting them first.

If you'll read my response to posters above, you'll see that Jim DOES know
the specifics I need and want .. trust me, there is no other women more open
and honest and clear ... than me. :-)

Simple answer to why we couldn't afford the races ... I became sick a few
years ago .... with more than one disease ... I'm unable to work, and the
money was real tight, since he's the only one bringing in an income at this
time. I did have an 'at home' business for 3 years, but even that stopped
because of my symptoms.

He goes more often now, because he's only paying the rent, no other bills
.... I'm having to come up with a way to pay the rest. Also, his brother or
nephews pay his way every so often, because they need him there to help.

About his brother: A good wife comes FIRST!! Period!! I am very strong on
that .. as he comes first over EVERYBODY except God to me! When his brother
hurts me in being insulting or rude .. when his nephews talk VERY degrading
about women in front of me ... and he says NOTHING, and gets angry at ME for
speaking up about it ... THAT'S wrong .. no matter HOW you look at it! His
family has never accepted me, and it's not ME .. I'm very outgoing and
caring person. They are very cold and critical to outsiders ... so when I
DO go to the racetrack with him, there is nothing for me to do... since the
nephews are there with their girlfriends, talking degrading .. using vulgar
language ... and pretty much ignoring me ... what's the use? I want to be
with Jim, but Jim puts them and the car first anyway ... so what am I doing
there?

I'm trying to struggle with my health ... having to face a future unknown,
and different from anything I know ... I'm under allot of stress with that
alone, and yet I still try to be as loving and attentive to him as possible.
Sorry ... but I feel I'm doing as much as humanly possible here ... let
alone not folding under all this! HE has a responsibility to me also ... to
be by my side through this, and he has NEVER been very sympathetic or
empathetic of what I'm going thru.

Tired now ... will stop here and let you absorb. :-)

Hugs,
Dee


thrown

with

wendy marsden

I somehow doubt you are as good at communication as you seem to think you are.

Okay, how about this? You have needs, he has needs. You have a
personality type, he has a different personality type. You are different
people. You are asking him to fill amorphous needs that just don't come
naturally to him. Do you ask him to liven things up at parties when he's
an introvert, too?

I think you could do with some time with the Myers-Briggs personality
types. What type are you? What type is he? Can you see ways in which
you would interact with the world differently?

I am sorry that you have lupus. Is keeping your husband from his brother
and his hobby really in your best interest?

Wendy