n d via medkb.com

Hi, I'm a 34-year-old who has been dealing with moderate BPH the past few
years. Tried Flomax and Urotraxal and had bad reactions to them, and after
conssulting with 2 uros have opted to get trans urethral microwave therapy
done in January rather than anything more invasive which I'd like to avoid
since I'm pretty young for all this. Long story short, would like to get
opinions from anyone that may have had it done. Hard to find real experiences
and opinions out there on the Internet on this. I'd like to hear anyone's
experiences if they have them. Thanks!

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Message posted via MedKB.com
http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/prostate-bhp/200511/1

rich256

Won't hurt trying it but don't expect full results. I had the Targis last
spring. The URO talked me into it over PVP saying I could always have the
PVP but not the other way around.

Fortunately the woman that performed most of the procedure called me the
night before and gave me a full rundown on what to expect. More fortunately
I did not experience half of the effects, such as bladder spasms during the
procedure, that she said might happen. It is not a painless procedure but
all I really experienced were a few when things were inserted and removed.
Nothing during the procedure and nothing after.

I did go from getting up at least every two hours or more often to getting
up twice a night. Perhaps next I will try the PVP.

I too had bad reactions to the Flomax.

Does your uros do PVP?

Some information on TUMT on the Urologix site:

http://www.urologix.com/

They make both the Targis and Prostatron machines.

PVP maker Laserscope

http://www.laserscope.com/

chockman

I am a 62 yr old who had Prostatron 2.5 TUMT July 04. About 1/2 of the
prostatic urethra was cleared, but the distal half was still occluded.
Had the PVP 2/23/05 because I was still having some feeling just before
going to bed that the bladder was not yet empty. Had no retro with the
TUMT but did have retro from the PVP due to the need to incise the
bladder neck. Would be willing to answer any questions about either
procedure. chockman@canby.com

philip magallanes

I actually have a very strong opinion against it. Granted it is based on
anecdotal evidence but it is my opinion.
Two of my co-workers have had TUMT procedures. The first one (about 60
years old) seemed to be happy at first but within a few months his symptoms
came back. The second one (about 54 years old) had a very bad experience
with the TUMT and it isn't over yet. To make a long story short, his
symptoms got worse after the procedure. He required a catheter for over two
weeks and then self-catheterization. He told me that the procedure was
extremely painful because they had to put needle probes directly into the
prostate to measure the temperature. After six weeks he is still somewhat
incontinent (always wet) and never knows if he will be able to urinate when
the urge comes.
A little over a year ago I had a TURP (I was 57) that went very well.
After two days in the hospital they removed the catheter (no pain) and I
immediately had no problem urinating. Full recovery took several weeks but
everything went as expected.
Many people on this newsgroup have had very good luck with PVP.
But having said all that, 34 is extremely young for any BPH procedure. I
would get a third and fourth opinion. I know of one very reputable
urologist who will not do TURPs on anyone younger than 60!
My two cents.
Phil

chockman

I would like to know what kind of TUMT procedure uses needle probes to
measure the temperature. My Prostatron 2.5 TUMT 7/2/04 used a
temperature probe up the anus, but that was only an inconvenience. It
certainly was not painful. The discomfort that I had was a feeling of
need to urinate during the 30 min procedure, a slight feeling of heat
inside the prostate, but the penis was as cold as ice. The recuperation
after the TUMT was far more difficult than the procedure because of the
urgency/frequency issues. My main problem with the TUMT was that it
cleared only half of the prostatic urethra and I had a PVP to finish the
job 2/23/05. At least I did not have retro with the TUMT but do have it
from the PVP. I wonder if your friend had a TUNA instead of a TUMT.
The TUNA uses needles which are pushed into the prostate. The radio
frequency energy is transmitted to sections of the prostate via the
needles. I would like to hear from those who have had TUNA and their
level of discomfort during the procedure.

rich256

I suspect the procedure with the needles was most likely TUNA.
"Transurethral Needle Ablation"

My URO told me they had done about 500 Targis TUMT procedures. They said
that 80% said they would do it again. Two said they would never do it
again.

A good discussion about the alternatives at the Mayo Clinic site:


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/enlarged-prostate-bph/BP99999/PAGE=BP00001&

al

About age - if you had a 5 year old house and the plumbing backed up,
would you think "this house is too new for roto-rooter so I'll live with
it and mop up everyday until it's 20 years older?"

Look up posts to this NG from Patrick starting 4 or 5 years ago. He was
around your age, had serious BPH and had an unsuccessful microwave
treatment for it. Several of his Doctors and Urologists did not want to
believe it could be BPH at his age. He finally became an early
participant in clinical trials of PVP. His results were great and
influenced a few of us on this NG to seek PVP.

Left untreated, BPH can do permanent damage to your bladder and even
kidneys - just like ignoring a plumbing leak can eventually cause rot,
mildew and mold.

I believe that the reason some guys have continuing problems after PVP,
and some other procedures, is because things above the prostate have
become damaged by neglect. Clearing the passageway cannot restore a
bladder stretched and weakened by years of retention. Good Doctors
explain what you can reasonably expect, based on the tests and
evaluation they have performed on you, before scheduling surgery.

My advice is to thoroughly evaluate through urodynamic tests,
cystoscophy, blood work, PSA (with biopsy if indicated) what and where
the problem really is. If you indeed have BPH - fix it. I am among
those extremely satisfied and grateful for my PVP - but I would add that
I would rather have a TURP by the best TURP surgeon in the country than
a PVP by the worst PVP surgeon. The skill of my surgeon fixed my BPH.

Al
PVP Dec 2003, Dr Te

spread_democracy

This has been an excellent thread. I like the logic, too, that if you
really need to have a surgical procedure done, then do it, ...being too
young is irrelevant. Meds are there to help, but if the meds don't help,
then there is surgery.

Let me add a few points that have not yet been covered.

Because you are so young: Did your doctors thoroughly test for, and rule
out, Prostatitis? If not, why not? Your age should have been an
indicator, in my opinion. And, did they put you on more than one
antibiotic and as many as 3 if they were not certain of the specific
bacteria causing your prostatitis? What about blood tests to determine if
one of your other hormones is a potential indicator of an endocrine problem
that might be treatable by an endocrinologist instead of a urologist? If
not, Did you at least have blood tests prescribed by your Urologists to
determine your DHT levels? If you did, did you learn that you had
abnormally high DHT levels? If you DHT is not alarmingly high, or at the
very least above average for your age range, can they explain why your
prostate is growing? If the DHT levels are indeed very high, did your
doctors THEN put you on the highly publicized combination therapy of
"FLOMAX", [or UROXATROL, (XATROL), or one of the other 2 similar-acting
drugs], ...along with "PROSCAR" or "AVODART"? Have you been on PRO or AVO
for at least 14 months without seeing any improvement, meaning, without the
prostate reducing in size somewhat? Have they ruled out other causes of
prostate growth than the ones mentioned above? (I did note did not
tolerate FLO or XATROL very well, but did you try the other two?)

These are just some questions I would force the doctors to grapple with if I
were going through this at age 34.
Here's wishing you all the best.

jay1000

Agree that retention is serious but so is surgery. Your uro can check for
retention with a simple bladder sonogram. It is possible to have BPH
without retention. Then the decision for surgery is less clear cut.

chockman

****:

Thought you would be interested in the response from Urologix about the
difference between Prostatron and Targis...Find it below...

"The Targis is our original unit - the Prostatron is the unit that we
bought from Europe in the year 2000. They both do the same treatment -
The Targis has a wider range of catheter sizes to treat larger glands.

Thank you for your inquiry!

Annette Johnson
Urologix Customer Service
888-229-0772

"Clear information guides everyone in the right direction."


-----Original Message-----
From: Clyde & Carolyn Hockman [mailto:chockman@canby.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:44 AM
To: CustomerService
Subject: Targis Vs Prostatron

I would appreciate information explaining the difference between
Prostatron and Targis systems. Thanks. Chockman@canby.com