the puppy wizard

HOWEDY liea,


You mean, like The Amazing Puppy Wizard?


Like THIS?:

"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless."


Unlike The Amazing Puppy Wizard who just quotes
you from HIS Archives at google.com:

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@comcast.net> wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help. http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"


Yeah. Like HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard titles HIS QUOTES, "CRIMINAL INSANITY."

Sometimes fiction is only rivaled by truth.


INDEED? You want CUTE?

Yeah. Never get enough words, eh liea?

Like the recent "adopter" who refused to return
the dog to his owner when they finally got connected?


Well, she was willin to ignore everything and fight
abHOWET ownership in court...


Yeah. We'd all like good folks like you to speak
well for us, eh liea.

Like your dog Cubbe.


That you'd buy every thing he needs, pronged spiked
pinch choke and shock collar, crate, aversive sprays,
and a professional training class where you'll learn
HOWE to twist and pinch ears and toes and shock
and jerk and choke dogs on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars and shock them:

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in but
will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)," lying frosty dahl.


Yeah. Even if the dog's SOFT:

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

A dog is a dog, liea. NOT "all dogs are alike." All
dogs are dogs. A dog is a dog. All dogs are alike
insofar as they're dogs, liea.


Right. You're such a sensitive dog lover, liea.
You'd almost EXXXPECT the person in the story
to say she's been taking him to trainin lessons:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

================

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."


You mean, STEAL the dog like booby maida
and babette haggerty would likely do, based
on their own advice to a poster with an ETHICKAL
question, liea? Or to PROTECT him from further
abuse by a dog lover like you, liea?:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."


"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."-
-Mike Dufort author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?


Yeah. All depends on HOWE many words you
can use, eh liea? Like a contest on a pack of matches.

Well, she just needs MOORE understanding:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

INDEED. Like THIS:

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"


Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House, 1996":

"Housebreaking problems:

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available
in your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use
his mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously
against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat
on the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while you
catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release
him from the stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like
gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction." wm koehler.

==============================


Here's liea's case history and EXXXPERIENCE
with shock fences. Her dog Cubbe nHOWE has
a nerveHOWES OCD head shake for which she's seen the vet:
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@comcast.net> wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...


Here's Cubbe ATTACKING a neighbor's dog just
last week, and previHOWEsly attacking liea's only
friend and assaulting a couple kids and escaping
her surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM, which MADE
HER AGGRESSIVE:

"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless From:

Julia F N Altshuler (d000634c@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST

Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the first time
in roughly 2 years. The first few times were when we first got
her before she'd had any training and before we got the
electric fence to reinforce the physical one.

It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored clickers
and treats and calls. Make that, it was horrible for us. She
had a blast running free and chasing whatever she wanted.
For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we tried to catch
her.

Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday morning. It
had snowed, and the streets weren't quite clear yet. Jim
finally caught her when she was preoccupied with her head
down a hole.

For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.

She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent
treats for those recalls. She gets plenty of time to run free
in the backyard.

Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been working on
them. I haven't been as good about introducing the variable
reinforcement there, but I have been good about making sure
that she's never tricked into coming into the house when she'd
rather be outside. I always call her, give her a treat or
praise and let her go again.

So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't think I'm
a terrible one. I say that because I'm about to ask y'all for
some help in correcting my mistakes, and while I don't mind
criticism for past mistakes, I am hoping you'll concentrate on
what I should do now.

Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard time. I'd
gotten her into the house and was preparing to leave when she
escaped straight through the front door and right in front of
our noses. She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when she went over the
wire, and the chase ensued.

We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.

Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap collar
now with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the backdoor to
come in when I went to call her. From her excited behavior, I
could tell that she fully expected to be let out the front
door again so she could have another fun romp in the
neighborhood. I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every time I open the
door.

Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.

My specific questions:

How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?

She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and could zap her
when she's near certain windows inside. If I let her get
zapped at the front door with the zap collar, can I still take
the zap collar off and walk her out the front door with her
leash on? I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.

What's the best emergency procedure if, god forbid, it should
happen again?

Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques? By this
I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for Cubbe because
she so obviously freaked when we used leash corrections and
scoldings when we first got her.

I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?

Last night we had friends over for dinner with their 3
daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved Cubbe and were
having a blast clicker training her. I was impressed with how
quickly they caught on and how little correction they needed
to be consistent with the clicks and treats. Cubbe was fine
with the children; she always has been. Just as they were
getting ready to go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.
Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined because she gave a
snarl-snap.

I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let her
know that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't frightened
at all, and her parents who were also right there hadn't
realized what had happened. I then asked the snarlee to rub
Cubbe's belly further to reinforce that Cubbe is the
submissive one in that relationship. I let Cubbe up and all
was fine.

I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part of
wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.
Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing
with Cubbe the escapee?
--Lia ===================
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@attbi.com...


From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshuler@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST

Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.

Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.

I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.

Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.

Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.

Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).

Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.

Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced fighter
so I don't know if attack is the right word. She was snarfing,
making growly noises, jumping on Chief, had her mouth on
Chief's neck (on his back, behind his ears) and basically not
looking friendly, but I think if she'd wanted to do real damage,
she would have, and Chief was fine, nary a hair out of place.

Naturally with us all right there, we were able to intervene in
seconds.

A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance. Jo
and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)

Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people. Might
she have been guarding the balls Jim brought out? Or
was it the fact that we let our guard down for a few seconds
and she got scared of Chief when we all weren't practically
on top of her? Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a few seconds
would have been better for a first try? Or other theories?

Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?

--Lia

===================