northernspy1

For 5 months I was in the hands of quacks who didn't know that prostatitis can
produce rectal and other pains. Finally I discovered on my own that Cipro
greatly reduced my symptoms, and I've been on Cipro (or Levaquin, or for 3
weeks Septra) for 3 months.

I almost immediately got 75% better on Cipro/Levaquin, but not 100% better.
Possibly my epididymitis got worse. The pain is bad enough -- sometimes
spending afternoons with ice cubes against my left testicle for relief.

What to do? I can't take Cipro forever. And I am no longer improving.

THEORIES

1. I *can* take Cipro forever -- just take microdoses (a dreadful desparate
choice).

2. Stop Cipro and try Zithomax or Doxy (or even both at the same time --
they're both statics, not -cidals). My research below suggests Cipro may
PERPETUATE chlamydia (!) and maybe that's what I have.

3. I finally convinced one of the quacks to authorized a testicular sonogram.
Presto, I have multiple cysts. But does that mean removing the cysts gives me
a better chance of recovery?

4. Shouldn't I have had transrectal ultrasound by now?!!

5. Shouldn't I have had a cystoscopy by now ?!!

NUTS!

Antibiotics improved me so much so fast, and so reduced the swelling of my
prostate, I have reason to hope I really have an infection.

But I've never had any bacteria cultured (except for quickie piss tests, which
are negative). My PSA is low.

I have zero medical training. I'm just another schmo with an aching butt
(mostly prostate and testicular pain, but sometimes pain sitting, tailbone
pain, etc.).

Why after 3 urologists and 7 other doctors am I stuck trying to figure this out
on my own?

If prostate massage might help, why is there no place in New York City I can
find to get it?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In pain too long and getting damn pissed!

- Carlos

northernsp y1@aol.com [remove space]

PS yes I take hot baths, drink little coffee, religiously offer myself daily
"hand relief". I'm avoiding Quercetin since I read it may interfere with
Quinolones like Cipro. I take anti-inflammatories like Naproxen.

=====================
CIPRO NOT GOOD FOR CHLAMYDIA ?

http://www.prostatitis.org/ciprochlamydia.html
"Persistence of Chlamydia trachomatis Is Induced by Ciprofloxacin and Ofloxacin
In Vitro" "esumption of overt chlamydial growth occurred after withdrawal of
ciprofloxacin, confirming the viability of persisting chlamydia. In vitro
ciprofloxacin results are consistent with clinical data, thereby providing an
explanation for treatment failures of ciprofloxacin."

MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS PHYSICAL -- BUT NO ONE EVEN SUGGESTS TESTS!


From
http://www.prostatitis.org/chinesepills.html

Now back in May I had an ultrasound exam (see
http://www.prostate.org/trus.html). It showed a cyst on one ejaculatory duct.
The doc has always talked about this being on the right, but today he mentioned
that he look another look at the images, and it's really on the left. We have
speculated whether drainages without surgery might have drained that cyst.
Symptomwise, I have much less pain than in May, but a sore spot has persisted
that still causes frequent urination. So he pressed on the left side today and
I said right away that a lot of fluid had been released; he pressed a second
time, and I felt the same kind of flow again. I got a nice puddle on the
microscope slide. When he looked at it in the microscope, he said the fluid was
"packed" with white blood cells. He said this was true pus, not just a high
white-cell count.

Could this have been that nasty cyst, popped by drainage #46? I believe it was,
because I feel better. Not quite cured, but maybe darned close. I also believe
that the Chinese pills were important in setting up the gland so this could
happen.
This evening, I saw my Chinese-American friend again. I told him a short
version of this story, so many treatments, now things speeded up. He said
"Those pills were not for the prostate. They are kidney pills." All I know is
they work wonders in conjunction with drainages. Just think if I had taken the
right pills! I may yet find the true prostate pills as Richard posted this
evening, but maybe I won't need them.

gothika

On 29 Aug 2004 05:24:10 GMT, northernspy1@aol.com (NorthernSpy1)


Join the club my friend. I had to get off Cipro years back after
suffering from conective tissue inflammation and damage that it
caused.
Am currently on and off of Doxycycline for my symptoms.

I chose to avoid that route after hearing a horror story or two.


Not unusual, Same for me.

Because most doctors don't give a shit, they are of the mind that this
is a condition that is predestined to happen for some.
They just hope it never happens to them.


For my prostate I found that cutting out ALL acidic drinks and
carbonation really helped.
That means no:
Sodas, Tea, Coffee, pasteurized fruit drinks.
Also stay away from spicy foods.
Eat plenty of leafy greens and steamed/cooked vegetables.
Fiber is important,use rice bran because it's not as harsh as wheat.
Get a hemorroid ointment with a vaso-constrictor to reduce swelling.
Keep up the hot soaks, at least until the pain and swelling are under control.

t. pierce

All I can say is that I know what you are going through. I am in my
6th week of Cipro and my results are similar. The severe lower back
pain is gone, but not completely. I have a feeling that it will be
right back as soon as I stop taking it. My energy level is low, and I
am not enjoying life at all. I'm 37 but feel like I'm 80.

On 29 Aug 2004 05:24:10 GMT, northernspy1@aol.com (NorthernSpy1)

northernspy1

Part of your symptoms may be from the Cipro itself.

I stopped recently because I was beginning to get quinolone arthritis -- pain
in joints, especially one of my ankles. I am told the pains will fade, and so
far that's true, but not everyone is so lucky, and they haven't faded
completely.

What I didn't realize until I stopped was how much of that "80 year old"
feeling was the result of the Cipro, which can also cause insomnia, shortness
of breath, and muscle ache (among other things). Those side-effects are only
rare if you take it the 7 to 14 days that is normal.

If you're already on Cipro road you have an incentive to keep with it, I guess,
as long as joint or tendon pains don't start. I wish I had started with
Zithromax or Doxyclycline, which are taken for shorter periods, and kill
different things.

Did anyone suggest doing a culture or other tests for bacteria before they
prescribed Cipro?

- Carlos

(New York)

makavelimob662

Carlos,


Why not get a ***** culture and see if there is really and bacteria?
Get a PCR-based Chlamydia test. Most labs perform this test.
It usually requires a urine sample. And is pretty accurate.

Mak

northernspy1

Hey, I'd love to!

I've learned by painful experience the dangers of mindlessly eating antibiotics
(including my partly fading cipro-induced joint pains); so why not get a *****
culture done first. Makes sense.

BUT HOW? I apologize for being so lame about this, but I've seen 6 urologists
already (including one winner of "best doctors of the year" award, and another
at one of New York's most prestigious hospitals). Chlamydia is THE MOST COMMON
cause of epididymal pain, but I have to beg for even quickie urine tests -- let
alone the ***** test you mention.

Who in New York City will do a ***** test? Why have the 6 uros so far NOT
done it? Why did NONE of them even suggest an EPS test? [whine mode /off]
[sorry! but I am frustrated].

I know there's a lot of (justified) skepticism here about antibiotics, but they
made me dramatically better, but not cured. And I had sweating and back pain
and other things that suggest infection. The idea I have some infection is at
a minimum not crazy.


I had some sort of urine test -- but I don't know if it was PCR, and I was on
Cipro at the time.

I also have a swab test pending, but since whatever I have involves no
discharge, chlamydia (if I have it) is presumably not urethral. Difficult to
believe the swab contained anything. {THAT quack told me if I had no discharge
I could not have chlamydia which is black-book plain 100% wrong. Who is nuts:
me or every doctor I've seen so far?}

Feel free to call me an idiot -- if you have suggestions. I'm obviously doing
something wrong.

What is it?

- Carlos

zaki.barak

Carlos,


Hey, its okay man. Ummm I dont know if the health-care system changes
that dramatically between states. I dont know what kind of health care
you have. However, urinalysis/urine culture and ***** culture are
fairly
routine tests.

If your doctor is not doing the STD tests for you, you know what? Go
to
a FREE STD Clinic. They will do testing for you that includes urine
and swab tests. I am not sure if they do *****.

Best of luck,

Mak

robert

How did you get the chlamydia if not urethral in origin in the first place?
Answer most people with chlamydia only require a urethral swab for positive
findings on PCR based testing. If most people with chlamydia had a
propensity for the prostate only, then that would not be the case.
Are you saying you had a discharge early on in the course and then it became
prostatic or are you saying that you never had a discharge? So you are
saying that you never had a discharge and never had symptoms of chlamydial
infection and never had a postitive chlamydial test and you then conclude
that the doctor is a quack.


doing


You are an idiot if 5 doctors say you don't have chlamydia and you still
think you do.


I know what it's not.

robert

news:<20040926162550.29600.00001389@mb-m29.aol.com>...


Good suggestion Mak but he already had one done for chlamydia and it came
back negative. The specialists know common variety chlamydia and they know
chronic prostatitis.

northernspy1

What I know is this:

- a great percentage (around 50%) of epididymitis is believed to be caused by
chlamydia

- chlamydia can occur without symptoms, or without urethral symptoms

- Cipro does not cure chlamydia. At least one study says Cipro causes
chlamydia to persist.

Do you deny those facts? If not, consider:

- I have been diagnosed with epididymitis

- for 9 months no one suggested that I get tested for chlamydia

- at month 6 doctors decided to ask me to try Cipro, and I tried it for 3
months. They never told me that joint pains were a likely side effect with
such prolonged use.

And you're telling me you don't see a problem?


Recall that chlamydia can occur without urethral discharge. What's the chance
in that cir***stance that a urethral swab will be effective to test?

Never had a urethral discharge. Still don't. One uro told me this proves I
cannot possibly have had chlamydia. That's a black letter, blatant,
please-put-me-in-jail-now mistake. How come I know that, and a specialist in
the field does not? Epdidymal chlamydia is well recognized, as is the fact it
can spread to the prostate -- all without urethal discharge.


I had a condition (epididymitis) that in 50% or so cases is said to be caused
by chlamydia, and not one of the 5 uros suggested a test for chlamydia.
Instead the prescribed the one antitiobic that not only does not kill
chlamydia, but may cause it to persist.

You begin to see the problem?

I'm not saying I have chlamydia. I'm saying it was crazy to go 9 months to
several doctors of the year and not to get tested for it -- and not to have an
EPS test of ANY kind. I pay over $500/month for medical insurance for just me,
but I only get to see bums. Why?

You must be a urologist. You can't listen, and you don't know the simplest
rules about the major cause or treatment of one of the diseases supposedly
within your speciality.

- Carlos