pohakuyakokane

RESTORING THE ATTRIBUTED REMARKS THAT GREEGOR THE WHORE AND THE LYING
PLANT KEEP AVOIDING:

In the interests of the small possibility it might keep you honest,
GREEGOR THE WHORE, I thought I'd lead off with the actual attributed
post you refer to, and post it to a little wider audience, that it
deserves, so now to return to the point in the thread where you take
up your puny lies again:

On 18 Jan 2004 03:53:02 -0800, Greegor@hotmail.com (Greg Hanson) wrote:

Advocating for removal of children from the vicinity of possible abuse
when there are unexplained broken bones in 95% of cases is what
problem to you, Greegor?


How is it a "LIE" to be suspicious. Suspicions aren't lies, even when
they turn out to be unfounded. Unexplained fractures cannot just be
ignored, Greegor the Whore...except by the likes of you and The Plant
and the Doanantor and The Leaky One.

That seems like a prudent course to take given the presence of
UNEXPLAINED fractures.

Such unexplained breaks don't magically explain themselves.

There has to be either an examination or investigation or both, where
the examination does NOT establish lack of OTHER SYMPTOMS consistent
with greater suspicion of abuse.

Narrowing your little pointy head to the issue of broken bones only
makes your argument LOOK ingenuously valid.

The point of the isolation of the child and the investigation is to
see if TBBD is present, and if there are NO OTHER SYMTOMS CONSISTENT
WITH ABUSE...such as tissue injury.

You liars are all alike. You think because YOU ARE STUPID that
everyone is as well.

Should CPS have left the little girl with you while they investigated,
Greegor?

Personally I think not.

Who knows where your "shyness" might have worn off and you decided
that you needed, for the sake of better shampoo rinsing, YOU, Warren
Beatty, needed to get undressed and into the shower with her.

They weren't willing to leave the child....given what a self serving
liar you are....where you could influence her with your intimidating
"training" and "step parenting" that you ALREADY PROVED YOU WOULD USE
ON HER. Punishment for wetting in a six year old girl...shees, man,
Are you stupid or what?


Yep, and they did their job precisely as they should have with you,
although I'm a bit disappointed if they left the child after g'pa
smashed your sick face for you. Did they? It was such a clear sign
something was up.

I am critical of them if the child stayed a day more in your presence. Scum.


Where there ARE witches that's the name of the game, and there's
probably little moral difference between a witch and a whore, and in
fact a good deal more danger with the whore.


Yep. Going on today, even as we speak. That's what YOU call it when
caseworkers do as the policy and law requires them to do...remove a
child with symptoms of possible abuse to investigate if there WAS
abuse, but remove the alledged victim to a safe place. Cops do the
same thing. For the same two reasons.

Safety of the victim, and avoidance of contamination of the
investigation by the perps, or other factors. Dan uses things such as
this, mistakes of CPS where they DON'T DO THEIR job correctly, to can
their asses and get kids back.

I use similar things in how I serve families and children. I even
teach families how to use the same things to get what they need and
protect children FROM CPS while squeezing all they can get out of the state.......LEGALLY.


You a contractor are you? An expert in these things? How'd you learn
so much sitting on your ass for three years with occasional can and bottle forays?


Blah blah blah. That's really going to help families that come here
get their children back, now isn't it.

Let's work up a misdirecting fury at CPS so we can no long think
clearly, marshall our resources, develope plan beyond ranting in a
"Motion" to the court.

Anyone reading this, please be sure, before you buy this yahoo's
bullshit, that you google on his name in the addy field.

Now and then some hapless parent in great pain has come here in their
confusion and been sucked in by suck assholes as this one, Greegor the
Whore, and his phony balogna "reformers" only to find that doing as
they suggest get's their child taken permanently and themselves, if
they aren't lucky, thrown in jail for a few years.

Do a search of this ng, ascps and read how it's gone down.

And which families have come here and been helped, and by whom.

That's why I sent the information to every state, doofus. WHAT HAVE
YOU OR THE PLANT OR ANYONE ELSE HERE, other than Dan, actually done
about this issue?

Nothing but whine and try to use it for purposes other than it should
be put to, to inform the state where they need to observe and use the latest information.

How did he "minimize" asshole. He's the one that brought up the
information and shared it freely and openly with others so THEY could
use it to cut the time.

I, who try to stay on top of such information, missed it entirely
until Dan found it first, to my embarrassment but pleasure at learning
it.

No one else here knew it either. Or bothered to look for it,
apparently.

AND HE PUT IT TO WORK FOR FAMILIES AND SPRUNG THEIR CHILDREN WITH IT.

All YOU can think to do is attack him.

Of course that is the common response of impotent useless do-nothings,
such as you and the other phony balogna "CPS reformers" here'bouts. ..


Harp away, twit.


The 15/22 rule is NOT about the money dummy. The money is controlled
more by the circumstances of the family. If the child's family are
above a certain level of income THE TITLE IV-E monies are cut
off...entirely.

It is about permancy in placement and has more than enough elasticity
to accomodate much more time if needed. Or less.

Did you notice the time lines on the cases Dan was involved in?

THAT'S what he put that information to use for. Did you notice the
time lines on the brittle bone cases he was involved with?

And in 19 out of the 20 cases that was not established until AFTER THE
INVESTIGATION...or there would have been no investigation.

The only logical outcome you appear to want is to NOT take the
children out of potential danger. That fits with your treatment of the
little girl though. So you are consistent if brutally and offensively anti child.


Or leave the child to possibly die in agonizing pain, or the perp to
concoct a way to set someone else up for the blame.

Read the milk cartons and ask yourself: how many of these weren't
really "stranger" abductions but in fact PERP disappearings of the
victim.

Read even the media on child abuse cases and see how many times such
things are likely to have happened or are even admitted to in other
kinds of abuse cases. Hell, often the only way they get caught (as I
just posted in the Hawaii case) was the child themselves fingering the
perp...and that's not going to happen with a TBBD case, now IS it, stupid?


Lie? Perhaps. Vicious lie? You bet your sweet bippy.

You are scum, scum. And The Plant is a Sap. An ugly one.


Had It not been the fool that it is it might have gotten away with it,
but you freaks are so stupid you can't even formulate a credible lie.
Now that's pitiful, isn't it.

The Plant can't tell the truth no matter what. Never responds to
challenges to her lies with anything but ad hom. Do you really want to
call That up for a ally and proof of your claim?


Yeah. The babblings of yet another child and family hater. You seem to
forget It's position on child beatings, and the minimizing and
apologizing for the death of children through drugging by parents:
It's most recent idiocy.

The Plant LOVES the idea of parents LIBERTY INTERESTS over coming the
civil rights of the child to life and freedom from abuse and neglect. Ask IT.

19 kids with no signs of injury?

Guess again dummy. If ever there was a reason to "evaluate" a child
away from potential perps it would be in cases where the child is too
young to communicate and has unexplained fractures.

Yes he did.

And..................?

We are waiting?

The phrasing of The Idiot Vine was so stupid as to be laughable. How
is TBBD established BEFORE investigation and evaluation?

Dan never claimed to support removal AFTER PROOF, only on the finding
of broken bones that can't be explained.

And HE is the activist you pissants who pretend you are about reform
that actually EFFECTS reform.

You sit on your asses pounding away on your keyboards with spittle
drooling down your chins willing to attack him for success even if it
might lead some family in need away from help and into the loss of
their children.

Why don't you and The Plant stop playing fast and loose with the truth
and attribute the statements in a straight line down the page when you
are making accusations?

Nuisanse value? Is that all you are here for, to pester someone that's
your better because you are such a small weak man? Sure looks like it
to me.

You and the everylovin' pest of CPSWatch, The Leakin' Deacon obviously
are so putridly poor at life that you can spend our time at such
nonsense rather than get out and live life and do something.

But you could post your Motion again to show us your fabulous legal
mind and writing skill, and explain for us again how you intended to
teach (animal train with aversion) that little girl not to put off
going to the bathroom and wetting herself.

Then explain what you've been doing, for the three years your
babysitting skills were no longer needed, to support the household.
I'm always looking for a way to make an extra buck. Could you give me
some hints on high return bottle and can collecting.

The Leaky One clued me in on the fortune to be found in looking for
collector items in the piles of gathered samples.

I can hardly wait to see what bullshit you post about Dan next. Have
you gone back to the delusion that he's out to get you like you used
to post?

All any of us want, Pissant, is for you to hit the road. If the court
isn't totally out of patience with the stupid women that chose her
boyfriend over her daughter she might, just might, have a chance to
get the girl back before her entire childhood is gone.

Have I mentioned lately that you are a scumsucker?

Kane

greegor

I think you made a dictionary scramble
out of something there.

95% of all removals for spiral fractures
were found to have been non-abuse.

8% were unknown and so POSSIBLY child abuse.
But it's also very unfair to think that
every UNKNOWN is child abuse.

28 kids (out of 128) in Patersons research
were removed forever from their family, and
he found that those 28 ALL later were
revealed to have ongoing MEDICAL CONDITIONS
that explained the spiral fractures.

Despite the revelation, the kids were never
reunited with their INNOCENT parents, and
some of the INNOCENT parents rotted in PRISON.

And* Did Paterson seek any reunification
of those 28 citing the information he discovered??

95+ % of all spiral fractures are NOT child abuse.
Yet CPS caseworkers, seeking to find the 5% or less,
remove the entire 100% from their families because
everybody ""knows"" that spiral fractures == child abuse.

Those 28 WRONGED kids and 28 sets of WRONGED parents
were never set right.

28 kids severed from INNOCENT parents.

Because of the MYTH about spiral fractures.

And yet Dan argues with me on this.

He says caseworkers need to make sure.

But he omits that this means removal of large
numbers of kids from INNOCENT parents.

And that ANY child removal where there was no
actual child abuse, is child abuse.

Removal based on lies or MYTHS is child abuse.
Done by ""Child Protectors"" this is horrific.
Removal harms kids.

It's not just a small bureaucratic "oopsie".

Play your word salad around the 95% Kane.

95% of spiral fractures are NOT child abuse.
Removing kids from parents because of spiral
fractures is KNOWING CHILD ABUSE on the part
of caseworkers.

What kind of ""warm welcome"" did you get when
you sent the Paterson report to all of the
CPS agencies?

Was it as heartfelt as you hoped?

Straight to the circular file in most cases I bet.

What you did is like telling Gotti he's a crook.

fern5827

Well said, Greg.


Greg sent in:

pohakuyakokane

Please explain "dictionary scramble."


I think you are not going to answer the question as asked, there,
here, or anywhere. And the syntax is perfectly understandable.

But hey. I'll see if I can simplify it for you.

Do you have a problem with removing the child from possible further
injury or framing of someone else for the breakage during
investigation?

If so why, dumbass?

So far, so good. Many actions during investigations of all kinds of
things were found to be unecessary because in the end the allegations
were unfounded, but that cannot be determined unless there is a what,
dumbass? A WHAT?

And investigation, no? NO? Dumbass?

Now how smart would YOU think it was for investigators to allow
possible victims (remember we DO have unexplained breaks BEFORE THE
INVESTIGATION) and the outcome of the investigation to be risked by
LEAVING THE VICTIM IN THE UNSUPERVISED VACINITY OF THE ALLEGED PERP BEING INVESTIGATED.


One doesn, by removing the victim, ASSUME anything but that the
investigation cannot proceed with the victim still within reach of the
unsupervised alleged perp.


That in no way negates the need for an uncontaminated investigation to
proceed without the victim and alleged perp in unsupervised contact.

In fact THAT IS ONE OF THE VERY THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN TO AN
INVESTIGATION if strict controls or not maintained. The original
removal was for safety and investigation integrity.

One does not just STOP investigating because the prior investigations
were poorly done. One sets out to IMPROVE THE INVESTIGATIONS. Exactly
the outcome one would expect when more and better information is
injected into the process.

The fact that Dan found and used that better information and injected
it into the process at the judicial hearings and GOT FAMILIES OFF doe
NOT got to NOT investing because there were mistakes in the past.

As a criminal, which you seem to be arguing from the bias of, you
don't make a crime not a crime or discontinue investigating crimes
because someone fucked up in the past...well, unless you want to
escape and get away with the crime yourself. That your position, dumbass?


Do you seriously think that I or anyone else APPROVES OF THAT?

And what does that have to do with removing the victim from the scene
during the investigation? It wasn't a proceedural fuckup (we have to
assume) that happened to those you cite.....it was an INVESTIGATIVE
AND JUDICAL FAILURE.

What you fail to note, and you likely will have difficulty finding
data for (I have not been able to so far) is how many BBD cases
investigated turned out to be ABUSIVE or neglectful causes by a
parental perp.

That's why, dummy, the investigations sans the victim cannot just be
discontinued as you seem to be advocating.

Learn how to analyze a problem with out your sick personal sucky
biases, will yah, huh?

What has THAT to do with the subject....the removal of a victim from
the vicinity of the investigation and alleged perp?

I am not arguing that a fucked up investigation is acceptable with
loss for all concerned...and your argument suggests I am....thus YOU
are lying, as usual, dumbass.


Which of the 100% can you know is the 95% and which the remaining 5%
until you have investigated, dumbass?


So tell us, even if they are biased, and that could be removed,
exactly how would that change the need for the requirement to
investigate, and remove the victim from the vicinity during investigation?

And if the information NOW available that shows that to be true is
used in court someone is going to get very very rich. Are YOU hoping
for that kind of mistake to be found in YOUR case...that the little
girl was wrongly removed from her mother?

Well, YOU figure it out. Not only was the little removed on perfectly
sound allegations....she TOLD THE NEIGHBOR SHE HAD BEEN PUT OUT BY YOU
WITHOUT A COAT OR SHOES OR SOCKS IN FEBRUARY WEATHER. Now wether or
not she lied is a a matter to INVESTIGATE, no?

And if she was left with you as the investigation proceeded could you
have not influenced her testimony, or even disappeared her somehow?

Do you think CPS should NOT remove children during an investigations
to avoid such risks? If not, criminal, why not?


Yep. Outrageous, but in the investigative stage, only with the lousy
outcome. And had the children been left with their parents during the
investigation, assuming the parents wouldn't muddy the investigation,
how would that have changed the outcome? All other things being equal?

No, bad outcomes from poor investigations and judical error is
bad...failing to remove chidren during investigation is WORSE, unless
you are a criminal...then you WANT TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT CHILD DURING
THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION.


Nope. Unexplained spiral fractures should have been investigated and
they still need to be, as all OTHER UNEXPLAINED INJURIES STILL SHOULD
AND MUST BE.

The problem wasn't in the decision to investigate, but in the lack of
the information that is ONLY NOW AVAILABLE.

All unwarranted injury to persons by legal action is BAD, just as
these cases were bad.....THAT DOES NOT MANDATE THAT INVESTIGATIONS
STOP, dumbass, but they be conducted NOW and in the future with the
newer, better information.

And those that were injured have RECOURSE FOR RECOMPENSE. That IS how
a just system works, not just stop prosecuting crime....shit, what a
dumbass, or criminal minded twit you are.


You call a dead on "given" and "arguement?" YOU aren't arguing. YOU
are prattling nonsense motivated by your basically criminal minded biases.


Are you saying they DON'T?

Are all unexplained injuries to children then to be ignored because
mistakes can be made in investigating, or judicially? I've heard 9
year olds put up better arguments when the pie got cut crocked and
they thought their piece was smaller than the next kid.

He does? I didn't see him omit that. I see YOU trying to USE that as a
means to set up a criminal abuse of children being UNINVESTIGATED.

I've never seen him argue that one way or another. You are making up
Dan's argument as you go along, a common convulsive reaction when one
is dead wrong and can't admit it. You need to stop that, get honest,
and grow up, or, citations please.


How do you think he wins all the cases he does? Hell, he even wins
when there were NOT "lies and Myths" and the parents admit their
guilt....RIGHT HERE ON THE NG IN FRONT OF US.

What MORE do you want? Dumbass.

Leaving them, as you assholes love to crow about and dance in the
blood of the children over, can also "harm" kids up to and including death.


Nope. That's why it's subject to change. As are all other systems in
government. Failure to use the existant means for change, even the
informal ones that Dan takes excellent advantage of, along with the
formal, is simply whining....and you seem very well versed in whining
and self pity.

I have to keep asking myself....if Dan could get people off that he
has, the innocent and the guilty, what was it about YOUR situation
that made YOU think he couldn't help you when he offerred?

Only to go on, in your case, making a further pile of shit out of the
lives of the little girl and her mother? Can you please clear this up
for us, or are you just winding up three years of trying to excuse
your stupidity (or cleverness, Whore) by continually attacking Dan
with your nonsense prattle?


You'll have to explain that in non-prattle. I don't speak Prattle.


That is established by WHAT process again?

By the way, repeating yourself is NOT a proof of fact, but only a
proof you repeat yourself.


There could well be cases of malicious intent to do harm on the part
of a caseworker. When and if that can be proven they should be taken
out and strung by various appendages until dead.

But the instances YOU are prattling about are NOT so intended. They
are the outcome of established and legally mandated proceedures. That
the information available was WRONG is NOT the first time in history
there was error in a system of enforcement.

The instant I see jackinapes screaming to do away with an enforcment
system mandated by society I know I am hearing the ravings of
criminals...whether they know they are criminals or not.

Reforming, tweaking, even reinventing, the systems in question is what
the law abiding responsible citizen does.

My rants here aren't at true reformers, if you haven't noticed you
must be braindead, but at stupid, criminal minded assholes that would
have children injured or killed for the LIBERTY INTERESTs of parents,
OVER children.

Fuck you twits, Greegor, and your criminal minds.


I did not get any official response other than acknowledgement of
receipt..though I did, through a couple of friends in the system, get
some positive feedback. It's too early to tell what, if any, impact
such information makes.

Not everyone in the world goes screaming "the sky is falling" at every
new piece of information offered. That is absolutely guaranteed to
bring any system a shambling halt. That IS YOUR mindless response, not
theirs, I hope.


I don't operate on "heartfelt." I note change in behavior. If I see
any cases around the country that I think may have been an outcome of
the new information I'll let you know...or you let me know...R R R R,
like you really WANT there to be better casework.

You phony balogna.


That kind of speculation that YOU do is called, now, Plantationing.
Get my drift?

Sort of like Doananism is to debate Plantationing is to CPS reform.


On the contrary. It's like informing him that he broke the law,
whether he knew it or not.

But your metaphor, like all criminals tend to think, is full of holes.
Except in those few cases where there may have been malicious criminal
intent by a worker no law has been broken by being mistaken from lack
of information.

What Dan did with the information can be done by others. Much as I
would like the world to instantly change for me when I correct
people's ignorance I'm NOT so ignorant myself that I think it will or
can.

You, on the other hand asshole, seem to think that law and enforcement
can just been done away with on the grounds that there were mistakes
in enforcement.

So tell us, asshole, what do YOU think would happen to children, the
unidentified 5% individuals before the investigation, were they left
with their perpetrators during the investigation?

Your mission, should you accept it, <snicker>, is from now on to go
into homes in front of the investigators and without investigating
yourself, identify those 5% and the remaining 95% so that removals for
investigation don't have to be done.

Step back while the tape self destructs, dumbass, AND SAVE THE WORLD.

Kane

pohakuyakokane

I don't speak or read Prattle. Can you explain what was said well?

Greegor The Whore, apparently only knows how to argue from a pile of
straw. He changed the subject from my question...investigation
removals for safety and crime site or act integrety...to one wrongful
termination of parent rights based on lack of knowledge. Still weak
but a strawman nontheless.

You DO undertand the fallacious nature of strawman arguents, do you
not?

So, to help put us back on track, and directly to what I DID say and
ask:

Do you believe that children with unexplained bone breaks should be
left with the possible perpetrator during the investigation?

If so, why, and if so what do you think that might do to the integrety
of the investigation, and the safety (if that matters to you one whit)
of the child victim?

Thanks for your "professional" msw training op-Onion.

By the bye, I meant to ask you: since you used the term to describe
yourself working with MSW students as "train" instead of "teach" can
we presume you were a traffic safety or workplace security trainer,
rather than actually "teaching" anything that pertained to child
welfare?

If not child welfare issues or social work specifics, could you
explain just what you did "train" them in?

Maybe CPR-first aid, water sports, calligraphy, personal hygiene,
manicure assessment, fly tying, cloud imagery? What?

Help us understand the very important professional role you had with
MSWs in training, will yah, huh?
Kane