dm12420

Hi All,
My doc left me to self dose and I suppose I did it too quickly. I've been on
125 mcg levoxyl and 15 mcg of cytomel for almost a week and now I can't sleep
although exhausted, feel my heart beating a slight bit faster although my pulse
is only 60, and I'm warm although my temperature is barely up to 98 degrees.
Darn, my acne was clearing up and my bowels were moving for a change. Going
back down to 100 levoxyl and 12.5 cytomel. How long does it take until that
dose is effective and I am not having what I think is hyper symptoms?
Thanks,
Dee

skipperbeers

My doctor started me out on too much Synthroid, and it felt bad. My pulse was
well over 100 and my BP was high. So, she put me on BP meds and told me to cut
my dose.

In your case, your pulse isn't high. It may be simply that to feel most
comfortable you need to go up slower. If you stayed on that dose, you would
probably get used to it. Is that 60 beats per minute an increase for you?

Also, melatonin is a natural hormone and quite helpful for periods of time when
one can't sleep. It stimulates growth hormone, is an antioxidant either 100 or
1000 times stronger than Vitamin C, and does no harm.

Also, when starting treatment it's not unusual because of the increased oxygen
or something else I don't remember well the reason my thyroid doc gave, but he
said it's not unusual at that point to go up the stairs and feel completely
exhausted for a while. Maybe it was because typically hypos conserve energy and
once you start expending it you have to get used to it again.

Skipper

diana

I have to disagree with this....Melatonin, like any natural supplements and
hormones, vitamins and minerals, can have adverse effects as well. Melatonin
has quite a few side effects and if you're going to take it you should
definately look it up, learn about it, and find out what types of medical
problems it is contraindicated in, and what medications it can or can't be
taken with. Then decide with your doctor whether it's right for you or not. Diana
"Skipperbeers" <skipperbeers@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040113110959.15374.00003296@mb-m04.aol.com...


but he

completely

energy and

dm12420

Skipper,
The 60 beats per minute is not an increase. It's the norm for me. I am
backing down to my last dose for awhile and see how that goes. If my hypo
symptoms return I'll increase slower. Thanks for your help.
Dee

diana

I'm not sure I'm understanding why you think you're having hyper symptoms if
your heartrate was not the concern?
Diana

skipperbeers

We've had a few discussions about this here. Some people like their pulse
rates low. But if it isn't high enough I dont think a person will have the
energy levels they want. I think the oxygen-rich blood needs to pump at a
faster rate. (Did you know that in hypothyroidism a person's blood volume
becomes low? I think that makes it easier to keep the BP up to prevent
death.That means more blood volume is something you and your heart also have to
get used to, may even make the heart a little tired and cause some of that
common feeling of overexertion when doing simple activities in the beginning.)
I know some thyroid docs don't want the heart rate over 80 (including
Durrant-Peatfield, Langer, and Atkins) but biochemist Ray Peat says the average
pulse rate in a healthy population is 85. In his new book, Durrant-Peatfield
says about hypothyroidism and the pulse, "The pulse is characteristically
slowed. if we consider the normal pulse to be say, 72 beats per minute, the
pulse may be down to 60."

Therefore his opinion, which uses a much lower rate than Ray Peat (neither
referred to what study they used, D-P didn't really imply he used one) implies
that 60 is a hypothyroid pulse rate. (He treats both adrenals and thyroid and
either can cause low pulse.)

Anyway, it should be harder to fall asleep when you're not hypothyroid and
falling asleep like a narcoleptic.

Note, I'm not telling you what you should do. Only making some suggestions
based on my opinion. You know what's best for you, I don't. But, if it were
me, I would tolerate the increased strength of the heartbeat as meaning the
hypothyroid condition, which is one of the worst things that a heart can go
through, is getting better.

Skipper

skipperbeers

Yes, the more you know about a supplement before you take it, the better Many
think melatonin is extremely safe. . In the excerpt that reports on the
largest study (they gave the women 75 mg, and generally 1 mg in a sublingual
pill is quite adequate, and they are generally sold in 3 mg batches also, "10
percent of the users said the hormone did nothing for them, and another 10
percent complained of side effects such as nightmares, headaches, morning
groginess, mild depression, and low *** drive." Note, when the melatonin is
stopped, none of these side effects is likely.

Did you or someone you know have a bad experience on melatonin that you want to
alert us about?

http://www.melatonin.com/
"Studies suggest that... supplements can hasten sleep and ease jet lag, without
the hazards or side effects of prescription sleeping pills."


http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20001227.html
In terms of side effects, the FAQ at Melatonin Central claims that according
to one report, "10 percent of the users said the hormone did nothing for them,
and another 10 percent complained of side effects such as nightmares,
headaches, morning groginess, mild depression, and low *** drive."

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/drugs/health/melatonin.htm
Is melatonin safe?
Melatonin is one of the least toxic substances known. People have taken as much
as 6 grams (600 to 3000 times the normal dosage) of the substance in carefully
monitored studies with no sign of toxicity. Only four complaints regarding
melatonin have been report to the FDA (USA's Food and Drug Administration). The
only consistent side effect of high doses has been drowsiness and a slower
reaction time.

In the most extensive clinical trial to date a high dose of 75 milligrams of
melatonin per day was given to 1400 women in the Netherlands for up to four
years with no ill effects. The FDA reports that in the more than two years
melatonin has been available for sale over-the-counter in the United States, no
alarming side effects have been reported.
Possible side effects:
According to one report, "10 percent of the users said the hormone did nothing
for them, and another 10 percent complained of side effects such as nightmares,
headaches, morning groginess, mild depression, and low *** drive. In past
studies, researchers have given people up to 600 to 3,000 times the usual doses
- without causing any toxicity."
Should certain people avoid it?
Yes. Those include women who are pregnant or nursing (since no one knows how
excessive exposure to the hormone might affect a foetus or infant); people with
severe allergies or autoimmune diseases (melatonin could exacerbate such
conditions by stimulating the immune system); people with immune-system cancers
such as lymphoma or leukemia (for the same reason), and healthy children (who
already produce it in abundance). Women trying to conceive should also think
twice about taking the hormone, since high doses can act as a contraceptive. As
with any substance introduced into your body, if you have a medical condition
you should always consult your physician first before taking melatonin.
Is it legal?

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/1993/nov17/32196.html
The findings also suggest that the hormone, melatonin, may be an
effective sedative with few side effects because it works by activating
the body's normal sleep-inducing mechanisms. Conventional sedatives, a class of
drugs known as benzodiazepines, often produce side effects
because they over stimulate a particular receptor in brain cells. They
also can be addictive.

********

Skipper

diana

No, I didn't have an experience, and neither did anyone that I know, but I
have done my homework and know that melatonin is not recommended for people
with autoimmune diseases, and since Hashimoto's and Graves are both
autoimmune, I thought it was a little unsafe to leave that comment as wide
open as it was about it "not causing harm."
Diana

(who

think

contraceptive. As

condition

class of

dm12420

I appreciate you telling me what to do. The only reason I wanted to decrease is
because I couldn't sleep at all last night and was hot. I have osteoporisis and
that worried me too thinking I was hyper. I actually was getting some
motivation back, my body temp was going up, and my bowels were moving which
were all good. I could feel my hearbeat last nothing but nothing that should
have disturbed my sleep. My blood pressure is always very low when tested. I
did take the lower dose today since I had to make that decision in the middle
of the night which is when I take my meds. I don't have much of an appetite
today which is very unusual for me since I usually eat 4 meals a day and I
weigh 105 pounds at 5ft 4 inches. I did gain some weight when I switched from
Armour to Levoxyl/cytomel. I just checked my pulse and it is 60 and my body
temp is a little over 98.6 but I just ate a hot meal after doing some fast
walking at the gym. My skin is yellow. Is that a sign of severe hypothyroidism?
My doc previously checked my for hepatitis and gave me an ultrasound to make
sure my liver was OK.
Thanks for all your help,
Dee

skipperbeers

Osteoporosis is scary, but low thyroid can cause it. Low thyroid causes all
kinds of absorption and nutrition problems until corrected.

That all sounds like you are getting better. Also things that keep you awake
but were too tired to be bothered by might surface. For example, high cortisol
causes trouble sleeping and if I remember yours might be high? My wife
wouldn't come to bed until exhausted because the cortisol levels wouldn't let
her sleep. Low estrogen can do the same thing in females. Actually, sometimes
it's harder to diagnose a thyroid problem with low estrogen because whereas low
thyroid tends to make people cold, low estrogen makes females warm or hot in
spite of low thyroid and also causes trouble sleeping. I don't know if you've
read Dr. John Lee on progesterone. He got interested in it when he gave it to
a few of his patients with osteoporosis and it reversed. That's natural
progesterone, not the artificial progestins many doctors prescribe.


It can be. A normal person can probably have this happen but if it's not the
liver, one common cause is the fact that hypos have a hard time converting beta
carotene in plants or vitamins into Vitamin A. When they have this problem
when they eat a lot of beta carotene, their skn can turn yellow.

Skipper