j.l. thomas

ok, i meditated a bit on the question "what should i do abt
the bathroom??" and basically got a sense that the first
thing i need to do is dump the entire contents of my brain
out onto "paper" (i type much faster than i write cursive
(or printing)).

rationale for that is that i have adhd, and the more i can
externalize my thinking processes, the easier life gets for
me. mind you, i tend not to do this much at all, but to a
certain extent, posting to the ng serves that function for
me.

so, here it is: every thought i can conjure up regarding
the bathroom project, in absolutely no order whatsoever, and
some of it probably in my own mental shorthand...and i
expect no one actually to read this (except the usual
suspects in that regard. ), and certainly need no reply.
Literally I'm using the ng as one big scrapbook/journal


ok, let the boredom begin:

hmm...better spoiler for cussing.
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damn...ok, do i tear out the walls to the dining room, or
not? the stupid subfloor boards are, like, sound? but
....they're not in *great* condition. and, i mean...life fkn
goes on, u know? but i'm so damned big, and i'll worry bout
going thru the floor, or at least breaking something... so,
ok...subfloor: *stares at keyboard blankly* where the hell
do i begin???

ok, abt 5 sections of subfloor, at least, are split down the
middle, lengthwise, and generally those creak. now, it's an
old house. i expect it to creak. the floor's also not even
remotely level, and i don't give a shit about that,
either...but it wouldn't be *that* much to put one of those
thingies under the joists in the ba*****t and jack it up a
bit every week...but if i do that for the bathroom,
shouldn't i do that for the dining room, too? and the
kitchen...and the living room...and....

ok, so that's one question.

next...the wall between the bathroom and the dining room is
several inches in (bathroom-side) from the next joist over.
so if i take out the cracked boards - or all of the
subfloor, which i'm also looking at again - do i stop at the
last visible joist? or cut everything off at wall level,
and find some dumbass-annoying way to support the edges of
the boards where there's no freaking joist to nail them to?
or do i take the FREAKING walls down (rainstar gets to help
if i do. i promised), and do the subfloor boards to the
next joist over?

cuz some of the oak flooring pieces just outside of the
bathroom door are a bit water damaged anyway, and it
wouldn't kill me to have to take those up and redo them.
and the polyeurethane finish on my floor that i did 2 years
ago is all messed up in the dining room anyway...thanks in
only *very* small part to dumbfu...err...bruce (i keep
getting his name wrong!) deciding that since i'd already f'd
up some parts of the floor, it didn't matter if he f'd it up
more. grr. i get to be mad at *me* cuz i messed up my
floor. i don't *want* to be mad at him, too, cuz it feels
like i'm cheating.

grr...

anyway...and if i take the walls down and go to the next
joist over, who's to say i'm not gonna flip out at the
condition of *those* subfloor boards??? I'M NOT RIPPING UP
MY ENTIRE HOUSE!!!

ok...*whew* got that out of my system. *grins*

anyways...that's the big conundrum right now. the book that
i'm reading shows sheets of plywood as the subfloor, but i
don't know if that's just because they had to throw
something together to be able to take pretty pictures of for
the book, or if that's the current standard for subflooring.

but i wouldn't mind throwing down some plywood over most of
the floor. i suppose i could even make-do with the visible
joist, instead of taking the damned walls down. see, one
reason for taking the walls down is that the drywall has
marks/dents in it on the other side anyway (one side's my
fault. the other side's dumfu...err...bruce's).

and i still need to figure out whether there's insulation
behind the drywall in the dining room.

<---has lots of insulation.

ok...so that's the subfloor problem. or i could just leave
the boards the way they are, and just replace the bits that
are *obviously* messed up. problem with that is that the
original boards are actually a true 6", and the replacement
boards are, what, 5.5"? so i end up having gaps between the
new boards and the old boards, and i have to figure out what
to do about the gaps. i'd thought abt just putting pieces
of wood cut to size in there, but remembered today that i
won't be able to nail them down because that would crack the
wood - it's too thin/narrow. i could glue it down or
something, or just lay it there...who really cares, after
all??

damn...just heard someone in my head say something like "was
nifty-funwow-cool", but i don't know what she was referring
to. it's like, i actually checked to see if i typed it.
like, it was the thread of conversation i thought i was
supposed to be following to get back to my train of
thought...*whistles innocently*

(yes, brat, it sounds like a train whistle. )

oooookaaaaaaaay......SO!!!

right now i want to take all the boards out up to the last
visible joist, and then just fiddle with the rest of it...i
mean, leave some of it, replace some of it...but i know i'm
not going to be very happy with that.

cuz here's the other thing: I WANT THIS DONE. i need a
shower that's not freezing cold. i need a toilet that
works. i need the insulation finished and the door put back
on cuz it's *cold*.

so...what's the bare minimum that i can do, in the least
amount of time, to get the damned thing into some semblance
of working order, at least til spring comes and/or i
actually MAKE it to the damned tiling class at 10am on
saturday mornings...*sheesh*

cuz i'm ok with putting drywall onto the section by the
toilet, and putting the floor down, and getting the toilet
in. np. i can hold off for a bit on tiling all of the
shower surround, i guess. heck, i can just tack plastic
sheeting up over there, and use the shower, after i get the
damned pipes to STOP LEAKING. *grr*

see, i wouldn't have gotten into this project if bruce
hadn't said he'd help me, and...*grrrrrrrrrrrr*

ok, that's not productive. i just feel so ...ignorant. i
don't have anyone who knows what sie's doing standing over
my shoulder saying "nah...those boards are no good...here's
what u do to replace the subfloor boards without taking the
wall down..", ya know?

ok, so...*sigh* the shower surround: i bought a shower
base. it's 36.5x36.5x5.5. the bathroom is 40 inches wide,
stud to stud. yes, my hips are almost that wide. *hee*
(that's a joke). there's abt 51 or 52 inches of depth for
the shower area. the suggestion that was made was that i
put the bench-seat at the far end of the shower area, and
put the base in front of it. but a 15" seat, plus a 36"
base, plus the 5" for the vent pipe that i don't want to
have to move (it's in the bathroom proper, not in the wall.
the previous shower stall was in front of it.), comes to
56", so i need to have the bench undercut a bit so the base
takes up some of that 15" seat width. that works fine for
me anyway, cuz i'd rather be able to tuck my feet under a
bit while sitting on the seat, than have it just be a
squared-off thing. 'sides, the seat has to angle just a bit
towards the front anyway, so it drains properly.

ok, so...i want the face of the seat, then, the verticle
face, to slant in for most of its height, but at the bottom,
just have tile's width be vertical, cuz that'll make it
easier for the flange of the shower base to be built over.
but because the width of the shower section is 40", and the
base is 36.5, i kinda want to angle *those* walls (maybe
just one of them. *sigh* ) (oh, hell...i can't cut a
straight line with any kind of saw to save my life. i can't
hammer anything straight, nothing. there's nothing straight
about me. *hee* so i don't have to worry about trying to
make the walls straight: they won't be. *sigh*) out a bit
so that i can have the extra elbow room, ya know?

i figure to use the quarter inch backerboard on the walls,
and half-inch for the tiled section of the floor, so the
1/4" wallboard and the tile'll come to abt half an inch
thick...so we're at 39" on the width. i suppose we're not
really losing much...but if i angle it on the side where the
pipes are...

....and the pipes are another story. why *shouldn't* i put
the pipes on the inside wall, since i have the wall open
anyway? but then the sink pipes will still be on the
outside...though, i suppose with the cabinet i might be able
to put *those* pipes outside of the wall, instead of coming
up thru...

....but then i'd want to fix the stupidness of the stud
supports that they put in to run the horizontal drain pipe
for the sink...they just cut a whole chunk out of the studs,
then nailed wood on the outside of the stud to support the
window frame, that's right above the sink. *pant, pant*

so...ok...now we're up to "do i change the type of pipe i'm
using, since i can't get the stupid galvanized ones to stop
leaking, and it'd be far easier to put in pvc and copper
(for the supply), but i'd have to learn how to do the
copper, and even though i read the instructions in the book,
it involves fire, and...well...fire bad. me with a
torch just frightens me. :-D especially knowing *just how
much of this house is wood!!!!!*

ok, we put all the valuables in the garage...and get a
fire-proof box for the stuffies...and... (yes, i've actually
heard jen consider this.)

oh, and just for the hell of it, i've already decided not to
worry bout the rewiring right now.

though i *still* think i should set up a wall outlet and
network thingy (after all, i'm going to network the whole
house eventually, right???) for the dining room (especially
since my computer's just on the other side of the wall from
the bathroom, and is connected via 2 power strips (one
plugged in to the other) to get to the nearest plug. oh,
and rainstar's computer's on the same 2 power strips. but
that's ok, cuz the entire first floor, fridge, microwave,
dishwasher, 3 computers (used to be 5), tv, vcr, etc, etc,
etc...is all on one breaker anyway. :-D the bathroom's on
a separate switch.

*pant, pant*

ok. so. where was I??? *scrolls up* *scrolls back down*
ok, got it. if i angle the wall out on the side where the
pipes are, then it kinda makes up for some of the space
that's kinda taken up by having the pipes there, u know?

and what the heck kinda ceiling am i supposed to put over
the shower????????????? *pant, pant* (down, girl...)

ok, so i want to do a drop-ceiling, cuz there's a vent for
the ceiling fan (and i can use the old one. it looks like
the bathroom had been "done" (as opposed to "redone" or
"undone") sometime in the last 30 years or so, honestly,
probably last 20, and the fan doesn't look bad at all. it's
in good physical condition, and ran fine when it was hooked
up b4. mind u, i almost never turned it *on*...but that's
another story. *pant*), and it's abt 15" from the "true"
ceiling. mind you, there's a bit of a dropped ceiling over
the rest of the bathroom anyway. so i can either drop all
of the ceiling to the level of the shower area, or i can
just do the lower drop to the right - shower - and use the
existing, higher drop for the rest of the bathroom. it
kinda marks the shower area better, you know? cuz, like,
the window's directly across from the door, and the sink's
right under the window, and everything to the right of the
window/door is shower area, and everything to the left is
toilet area or whatever.

so if the dropped ceiling starts at the edge of the
window...which brings up teh question of whether i'm going
to put the same mouldings back up as before...which brings
up teh question of what the heck i'm doing about the
moulding on the *outside* of teh bathroom door that my dad
messed up when he was "helping" me initially, when i put the
new door on...*pant, pant*...and, and, and.....

need more coffee...

see, if i take the walls down, that also solves the question
of what to do about the moulding that dad messed up. and i
can relocate the door opening, if i want. you know...make
it bigger, handicapped accessible...have more wall
space...HAVE ROOM FOR A TUB!!!!!! *pant, pant*

cuz i'd really like a tub.

ok...so i rip the walls, replace the subfloor out to the
next joist, reframe the walls and move the doorframe, making
it a standard size at the same time so a standard door will
just fit in it perfectly...and i throw a tub in there, take
the shower base back, *pant, pant*...

damn...that *does* fix a lot of problems...shit.

....but then...the ceiling...the dropped ceiling's attached
to the inside wall studs. i could lose the dropped ceiling,
i suppose. will a higher ceiling make the bathroom look
*smirks* roomier? *hee hee* (*NOTHING* can make a 40"
wide bathroom look roomier!)

ok, ok, ok....damn....didn't get the coffee...

(said to rainstar: "i've unfortunately made a rather good
case for ripping down the walls.)
(rainstar: " :-DDDDD ")

*sigh* more l8r, i guess...

jt

--
"It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature,
well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear -- which is
perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted."
-- Joseph Lempa

goblin

Hi jt,

Think well ventilated,
Think classical,
Think the Sun and the Moon,
Think winter-fresh,
Think outhouse,
Think July in New York,
Think of something else,

The Brat

kristi

Oh goody - I get to comment!!!!! heeheeheeheeheeheeheehee


but it wouldn't be *that* much to put one of those


yes, definitely!!! This is a smart and easy way out, imho

to the next joist. but you should be able to raise the wall 1/8 to
1/4" and make the change while the wall is still there, assuming
it's not a weightbearing wall..... pain in the a**, though.


that's why I suggest the floor jacks in the ba*****t - cures a
multitude of probs. Just avoid the quicksand down there... :-D


you could either have the lumber yard cut down 1x8's (they will be
too this, but you can easily shim that), or find an old mill out in
the country that has the wider/older boards... espense,
though.....

so i end up having gaps between the

if you don't, they'll freeze ((((((((


but then the sink pipes will still be on the


If you have the space, you'll like the tub better..... )


neat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kristi

celeste

k just an idea right...if your not sure where to start or what needs to be
done in what order
why dont u look in the yellow p*ges(a) if u have those in the US, find a
workman to come round n give u a quote
for what needs doing, ask him lots of questions, get the free quote, n tell
him(hey, or her ) that u will get back to him.
this way u know the best way things need to be done. hey n if your feelin
OCD get 10 to come round, so u get lots of opinons on the best way it could
be done ;p.
Celeste.
p.s also works good for me for gettin some of the frustration out is just go
into a closed room, swear/cuss loudly as much
as u like bout anythin u like, n then get to it. surprisin just how much
that kicks my adrenalin n gets me movin too.

rainstar

*giggles* u kno our vote. *giggles*

[oy! help! *visions of little ones with sledgehammers* *shakes head*]

we help put walls bak up too! we follow direkshuns good. DDD *giggles*

lils of Rainstar [and brian]


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jill

You have discovered _the_ problem with remodeling, knowing when to
stop!


I read it! *huge grin*

Was there cussing? I didn't notice.

Um, seriously consider consulting a professional if you are going
to be jacking up parts of the house. This could cause structural
changes that could get really dangerous if you do it wrong or crooked or whatever!

Hint, cause you bring it up later anyway, the standard now is to use
plywood for your subfloor.

This is _the_ way to go now. You just find a joist, put the sheet on
half of that joist, the other sheet on the other half and go on from
there. Simple and can be power nailed down BANG BANG BANG *grin*

Or you could spackle the dents...

Plus the plywood is stronger anyway. Just make sure you get the
stuff that is for subfloors.


Consider what you are doing with the floors. Pulling up hardwood
floors just to replace subfloor is lots of work. Pulling up hardwood
floors cause they need to be replaced anyway, it makes sense to
replace/repair the subfloor as you go and that would most likely
mean plywood cause that is really a better option. And in the
bathroom you want it to be more water resistant and less prone to
warping and humidity and all that so you might as well get it right
the first time, esp. if you are going to be redoing all of that
floor anyway to make it match (like replacing the tile floor or
putting in new linoleum).

Also ask at home depot for names of people who can come help you get
it done asap. Find out what it would cost just so you have that
option as well. My guess is that someone who does this for a living
can have your bathroom done in two/three days. Would that be worth
whatever it would cost?

Also a learning curve. It isn't _that_ difficult but it's not
something trivial either. I mean, gluing pvc is nothing, just over
do the glue and it will stick *grin* but soldering is a bit
trickier. You can learn it and practice and such and figure it out
but it still takes _some_ time to catch on. Just get a fire
extinguisher to sit nearby... just in case (oh, and don't throw
the extinguisher off a ladder cause it _will_ break. I speak from experience).

Um, make sure you check that the wall you want to move is _not_ load
bearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT move a load bearing wall without professional assistance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Tear it all down and build a new house. It will be easier in the
long run *ducking and running*

Rainbow Colors (Jill)
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
jill@tuells.org

kristi

ooooooooops!
)
Kristi

j.l. thomas

heh - my newsserver being on the fritz again, i didn't get
jill's post that kristi replied to. could someone please
email it to me? i'd appreciate it lots...

jt

something that i *would* reply to, please feel free to email
me with that, too. chances are i didn't get it. i'm
missing a solid third of the posts these days. *grumbles at newsserver*
"Kristi" <kristi***@pooh.ASARian.org> wrote in message news:Xns9424EF71647F3fizzlepop@140.99.99.130...

kristi

done!
Kristi

allofus

well no wonder there are problems if jill is letting fritz run the server! :0) jane