jeremy c b nicoll

XP Pro, SP2; a new machine not yet fully patched.

On a recent shutdown when I clicked on Start->TurnOff, the next choice
mentioned something like "Turn Off and apply updates" rather than just
"Turn Off". I chose it and what looked like a normal shutdown then
proceeded. I got the blue display that tells you Windows is logging
off, shutting down etc, and it said:

Applying update 1 of 56

and Do not turn off....

alternating. Twelve hours later that was still the situation, and I
did turn the machine off. On the next boot it clearly didn't start
cleanly; I got continuous eggtimer whenever the pointer went near the
task bar (so couldn't click on Start for example), but right-click on
the backdrop worked. I switched it off again. On the next boot the
machine started cleanly and has appeared fine ever since.

What happened?

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll, Edinburgh, Scotland - my opinions are my own.

frank saunders, ms-mvp oe

You turned the machine off during the install of an update. Therefore you
broke whatever it was installing. You were extremely lucky that Windows
managed to heal itself.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Reply in newsgroup
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve
neither liberty or security"

jeremy c b nicoll

Did I really? What update is there that would take 12 hours to get
nowhere (on a 1.8Ghz machine)? Not even as far as update 2 or 3 or
40 out of 56, or whatever?

Will what the machine thought it was doing be logged anywhere? I'd
certainly like to see some evidence that something was going on.

As I'm new to this I don't know what to expect. When I've had bits of
updates download and install when Windows is running I've seen progress
information in a dialog box on screen, eg downloading update xxx part 1
of 3 ... etc, then installing part 1 of 3 ... - and each part of that
only takes a few seconds or minutes to update. Why is there no
continuously updated display when the stuff running at shutdown is
executing, if that's normal?

After 12 hours of no progress at all I decided the thing was stuck.
Is there any way I could have got info on what it was doing, at that
point?

How long should I have waited?


I read in another thread someone's comment that AV software shouldn't be
allowed to run while updates are being applied. It's not obvious to me
at what point in an update process one would manually disable one's AV
software. I have WindowsUpdate set to download but not install stuff;
however when the small WU icon appears in the notification area and says
there are updates waiting to be installed I had assumed that if I
clicked on that I'd be given an opportunity to browse which updates had
arrived and choose which to install before the system did so, and yet I
have a feeling that I've clciked on this icon and had updating go ahead
without any chance for me to see what's available. Is there some other
place to go to look at what's been downloaded but not yet applied?

In the particular problem I had with the second part of updating
occuring at shutdown, can I safely assume that the AV software had been
killed by the Windows shutdown process before the updating started? If
not, since I did not know that the updates stuff was going to happen,
what am I supposed to do - shutdown AV software manually before every
shutdown of the machine?

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll, Edinburgh, Scotland - my opinions are my own.

jeremy c b nicoll

A return comment from Frank, addressing the 12 hour issue, would be
welcome.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll, Edinburgh, Scotland - my opinions are my own.

frank saunders, ms-mvp oe

No comment on the 12 hours. That I missed in the first message. I guess I
don't have an answer, but if it were my machine I would backup all my data
and downloaded install programs and then format and reinstall. Unless the
machine is working well enough for you.

And then only download 2 or 3 updates at a time.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Reply in newsgroup
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve
neither liberty or security"

jeremy c b nicoll

Thanks for replying.

I'm so new to Windows, let alone XP, that I've only used a tiny amount
of the system. Can't really tell if it's working "well enough". OTOH
a format & reinstall at this stage isn't too appealing, because I don't
know how to go about it; I'd hoped that XP was robust enough that I'd
never have to learn how to do this.

And, presumably, if I format the (only) disk in the machine I'll lose
what little of my own data is on it. I suppose that would mean I need
to buy a USB-attached drive or memory stick and copy some stuff off,
first. Rats! There are however very few installed programs, just what
came on the machin when I bought it. I thought I'd get XP uptodate
before installing any of the applications I want to have.


How does one control that? I selected the option to have the machine
download stuff and tell me what's there before it installs it, and I
really don't think it told me it was about to install 56 upgrades.

I don't absolutely remember, but I *think* that tooltip text showed
near the notification area's WU icon saying that stuff had been
downloaded and was ready to install and to click the icon... So I did.
I expected to be shown what had arrived and to be given the choice as
to which bits I wanted to install (because XP knew I'd chosen the
choose-when-to-install option).

I'm now wondering if XP treats a click on that icon as an instruction
to go ahead and install the whole lot rather than an instruction to
show what's arrived and decide what to do next. If that click does
mean that, then how does one (a) disable the icon so it can never be
accidentally clicked (by me or anyone else), and (b) find and act on a
list of separate available-to-be-installed updates?

If there'd been a choice presented to me allowing me to upgrade just a
little at a time, I'm certain I'd have chosen it - because I used to be
a mainframe S/370 systems programmer and I truly understand that
several small upgrades are easier to work with than one monster one.
OTOH as a mainframe sysprog I was also used to being presented with the
info that described pre-req and co-requisite demands of each fix, so we
knew which ones could be applied by themselves and which had to go on
in groups. I presume that WU has some similar logic in it somewhere,
but that's not displayed to users?

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll, Edinburgh, Scotland - my opinions are my own.

frank saunders, ms-mvp oe/wm

Turn off automatic updates, Open IE and click Tools | Windows Updates.
Select 2 or 3 of the lowest numbers it gives you.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
http://www.fjsmjs.com
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