charlie

OK so after having spent $499.- I get a SmartPhone 2002 phone that is
already outdated due to SmartPhone 2003.

On top of that the SmartPhone 2002 SDK is extremely poor to work with. I
feel like I have been transported back to MS C 1.0 days.

While the API reference is available, the following is lacking:
1. A proper get started tutorial that shows how to start a project, step by
step on how to write a "Hello World" application, and gradually takes the
developer to more and more sophisticated features of the SDK and phone.
2. A guide to the samples, this sample demonstrate the following features:
blah

Where the heck do you expect developers to start ???

Tell me what I need to know to develop on the smartphone !

This DevKit, and then what ? Conferences ? When/where ? Training ?

How much is this going to cost me ??? What is my ROI on this ???

You guys have no clue on how to make it in this business.

I'm a shareholder and I hate this waste of shareholder capital.

marc zimmermann [mvp]

Apparently some solid knowledge of Visual Studio 6.0 and Win32
programming.


I agree with you, the do***entation is somewhat poor and the samples
are lacking. Without a working understanding of how Windows and the
Visual Studio development environment works, you're a bit lost. This
development stuff is apparently targeted at experienced developers.

--
Marc Zimmermann
Microsoft MVP - Mobile Devices

Pocket PC User Groups http://www.clubpocketpc.de
Personal Homepage http://www.zimac.de

max prasek

You can find good infos for beginners on Smartphone Developer Network
http://www.smartphonedn.com

I also started from ground up half a year ago, and have now to projects
finished that work fine.

"charlie" <charlie@earth.planet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:%23S%23DQ85cDHA.2860@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...


by

marc zimmermann [mvp]

Apparently some solid knowledge of Visual Studio 6.0 and Win32
programming.


I agree with you, the do***entation is somewhat poor and the samples
are lacking. Without a working understanding of how Windows and the
Visual Studio development environment works, you're a bit lost. This
development stuff is apparently targeted at experienced developers.

--
Marc Zimmermann
Microsoft MVP - Mobile Devices

Pocket PC User Groups http://www.clubpocketpc.de
Personal Homepage http://www.zimac.de

max prasek

You can find good infos for beginners on Smartphone Developer Network
http://www.smartphonedn.com

I also started from ground up half a year ago, and have now to projects
finished that work fine.

"charlie" <charlie@earth.planet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:%23S%23DQ85cDHA.2860@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...


by

reedr

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the feedback. The technologies and platforms (as with any new
market) are going to evolve quickly based on feedback and demand. We
recognize that there is a lot of room for improvement to get good entry
level samples and guidance out there and we will work hard to fix that in
the coming months. If you are used to the rich dev environment of Visual
C++ and VS.NET on the desktop, then eVC will appear to take a step
backward, but this will get better and the tools will catch up. There is a
lot of great development in the works. In the interim, there is a good
community here to help and new resources are published regularly on MSDN
and 3rd party sites. Also, be sure and check out the SDK Samples directory
to get an idea of how some of this works.

One of the primary goals behind the Smartphone Developer Kit was to provide
an easy way to make an unlocked phone available to developers. This was a
frequent request since many people wanted to started working on
applications but Smartphone (especially unlocked phones) we not always easy
to come by.

Some additional resources that might help:
Introduction to Development Tools for Windows Mobile-based Pocket PCs and
Smartphones
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnppcgen/ht
ml/devtoolsmobileapps.asp
MSDN Mobility & Embedded Developer Center
http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/
Windows Mobile
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/default.mspx
Mobile2Market
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/mobile2market
/default.mspx

For training and more information, you might also consider attending the
Mobility Developer Conference (MDC) or the Professional Developers
Conference (PDC).


Hope this helps,
Reed Robison
DST Premier Services

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm"

--------------------
From: "charlie" <charlie@earth.planet>
Subject: SmartPhone 2002 Dev Kit -> Where to begin ??? (or $499 paper
weight ?)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:15:37 -0700
Lines: 26
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Message-ID: <#S#DQ85cDHA.2860@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer
NNTP-Posting-Host: c66-235-17-84.sea2.cablespeed.com 66.235.17.84
Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl
Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.smartphone.developer:6436
X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer

OK so after having spent $499.- I get a SmartPhone 2002 phone that is
already outdated due to SmartPhone 2003.

On top of that the SmartPhone 2002 SDK is extremely poor to work with. I
feel like I have been transported back to MS C 1.0 days.

While the API reference is available, the following is lacking:
1. A proper get started tutorial that shows how to start a project, step by
step on how to write a "Hello World" application, and gradually takes the
developer to more and more sophisticated features of the SDK and phone.
2. A guide to the samples, this sample demonstrate the following features:
blah

Where the heck do you expect developers to start ???

Tell me what I need to know to develop on the smartphone !

This DevKit, and then what ? Conferences ? When/where ? Training ?

How much is this going to cost me ??? What is my ROI on this ???

You guys have no clue on how to make it in this business.

I'm a shareholder and I hate this waste of shareholder capital.

reedr

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the feedback. The technologies and platforms (as with any new
market) are going to evolve quickly based on feedback and demand. We
recognize that there is a lot of room for improvement to get good entry
level samples and guidance out there and we will work hard to fix that in
the coming months. If you are used to the rich dev environment of Visual
C++ and VS.NET on the desktop, then eVC will appear to take a step
backward, but this will get better and the tools will catch up. There is a
lot of great development in the works. In the interim, there is a good
community here to help and new resources are published regularly on MSDN
and 3rd party sites. Also, be sure and check out the SDK Samples directory
to get an idea of how some of this works.

One of the primary goals behind the Smartphone Developer Kit was to provide
an easy way to make an unlocked phone available to developers. This was a
frequent request since many people wanted to started working on
applications but Smartphone (especially unlocked phones) we not always easy
to come by.

Some additional resources that might help:
Introduction to Development Tools for Windows Mobile-based Pocket PCs and
Smartphones
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnppcgen/ht
ml/devtoolsmobileapps.asp
MSDN Mobility & Embedded Developer Center
http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/
Windows Mobile
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/default.mspx
Mobile2Market
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/mobile2market
/default.mspx

For training and more information, you might also consider attending the
Mobility Developer Conference (MDC) or the Professional Developers
Conference (PDC).


Hope this helps,
Reed Robison
DST Premier Services

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm"

--------------------
From: "charlie" <charlie@earth.planet>
Subject: SmartPhone 2002 Dev Kit -> Where to begin ??? (or $499 paper
weight ?)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:15:37 -0700
Lines: 26
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Message-ID: <#S#DQ85cDHA.2860@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer
NNTP-Posting-Host: c66-235-17-84.sea2.cablespeed.com 66.235.17.84
Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl
Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.smartphone.developer:6436
X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer

OK so after having spent $499.- I get a SmartPhone 2002 phone that is
already outdated due to SmartPhone 2003.

On top of that the SmartPhone 2002 SDK is extremely poor to work with. I
feel like I have been transported back to MS C 1.0 days.

While the API reference is available, the following is lacking:
1. A proper get started tutorial that shows how to start a project, step by
step on how to write a "Hello World" application, and gradually takes the
developer to more and more sophisticated features of the SDK and phone.
2. A guide to the samples, this sample demonstrate the following features:
blah

Where the heck do you expect developers to start ???

Tell me what I need to know to develop on the smartphone !

This DevKit, and then what ? Conferences ? When/where ? Training ?

How much is this going to cost me ??? What is my ROI on this ???

You guys have no clue on how to make it in this business.

I'm a shareholder and I hate this waste of shareholder capital.

neil enns [msft]

Charlie,

You might find starting your work with the Smartphone 2003 SDK more useful
if you are used to MFC-style development. You can grab it from
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/, and the emulator images will give you a


straight C and C++! While it's true you can't use your dev kit phone to test
..NET CF apps (Smartphone 2002 doesn't support .NET CF), Robert provided some
additional information about possible upgrades in your other thread earlier
today.

If you want to start right now on 2002 and need a good printed reference I
highly recommend Doug Boiling's "Programming Microsoft Windows CE". Make
sure you look for the 3rd edition, which includes a chapter on programming
for Smartphone 2002 devices. You can find more information, including a
sample chapter and table of contents, at
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/6535.asp.

--
Neil Enns
Lead Program Manager
Microsoft Mobile Devices Product Group

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"charlie" <charlie@earth.planet> wrote in message news:Oyl%23A$BdDHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

neil enns [msft]

Charlie,

You might find starting your work with the Smartphone 2003 SDK more useful
if you are used to MFC-style development. You can grab it from
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/, and the emulator images will give you a


straight C and C++! While it's true you can't use your dev kit phone to test
..NET CF apps (Smartphone 2002 doesn't support .NET CF), Robert provided some
additional information about possible upgrades in your other thread earlier
today.

If you want to start right now on 2002 and need a good printed reference I
highly recommend Doug Boiling's "Programming Microsoft Windows CE". Make
sure you look for the 3rd edition, which includes a chapter on programming
for Smartphone 2002 devices. You can find more information, including a
sample chapter and table of contents, at
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/6535.asp.

--
Neil Enns
Lead Program Manager
Microsoft Mobile Devices Product Group

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"charlie" <charlie@earth.planet> wrote in message news:Oyl%23A$BdDHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

charlie

There is one bit of problem with .NET supported only on SmartPhone 2003 in
that it won't run on SmartPhone 2002.

That means the target market for .NET CF applications is extremely
minuscule. SmartPhone 2002 is not even widely available in the market, much
less SmartPhone 2003.

I am not going near SmartPhone 2003 SDK or .NET CF for that reason. I can't
make the money. The only way this makes sense is as a strategic investment.

Plus, with .NET CF only available on SmartPhone 2003 devices, you've
alienated current SmartPhone 2002 afficionados, existing customers. etc.

Listen, everybody is strapped for funds these days. Developers are too, we
have to be even more critical in making investment decisions. We can not
afford to be strategic, we need to make money today. You are not making that
easy for us. Java on the other hand is. Platform long term strategy religion
fades very quickly on the street when we have to feed families.

I'm not reading maturity in your strategy. It's optimized for something
else.