muff

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone knew the full specifications of the lcd
screens used in SPV/ E100 / Mitac phones ?

most specifically their built in latency, and therefore their
theoretical maximum frame rate

after all there's no point in writing apps / games that run at 60fps
if the screen is only capable of 30fps (but obviously the game logic
can run faster if we code tightly enough)

of course if any one has good tech details on other aspects of the
phone I'm sure we'd all love to see them - memory speed, sd card
maximum throughput etc - as all this stuff is important to know when
really pushing the limits of these lovely little beasts


TIA

muff

Posted via MoDaCo SmartPhone - http://www.MoDaCo.com/smartphone

muff

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone knew the full specifications of the lcd
screens used in SPV/ E100 / Mitac phones ?

most specifically their built in latency, and therefore their
theoretical maximum frame rate

after all there's no point in writing apps / games that run at 60fps
if the screen is only capable of 30fps (but obviously the game logic
can run faster if we code tightly enough)

of course if any one has good tech details on other aspects of the
phone I'm sure we'd all love to see them - memory speed, sd card
maximum throughput etc - as all this stuff is important to know when
really pushing the limits of these lovely little beasts


TIA

muff

Posted via MoDaCo SmartPhone - http://www.MoDaCo.com/smartphone

the pockettv team

----- Original Message -----
From: "muff" <muff@jiggle.fsnet.co.NOSPAM.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:15 PM
Subject: SPV / E100 / Mitac - technical details of screen

ans specially because the human eye can hardly capture framerate higher then
30 fps... especially on small displays. did you think about this ?

the pockettv team

----- Original Message -----
From: "muff" <muff@jiggle.fsnet.co.NOSPAM.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.smartphone.developer
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:15 PM
Subject: SPV / E100 / Mitac - technical details of screen

ans specially because the human eye can hardly capture framerate higher then
30 fps... especially on small displays. did you think about this ?

muff

ans specially because the human eye can hardly capture framerate
higher then
30 fps... especially on small displays. did you think about this
?[/quote:94e4b4678d]

yeah, but those extra frames are funny things - some people can spot
the flicker on CRT's + light bulbs even when running at 50hz, despite
the human eye having a theoretical 25hz limit - it's one cause of
migraines + headaches for some poeple

it will still be nice to know the actual hardware specs

muff

Posted via MoDaCo SmartPhone - http://www.MoDaCo.com/smartphone

muff

ans specially because the human eye can hardly capture framerate
higher then
30 fps... especially on small displays. did you think about this
?[/quote:94e4b4678d]

yeah, but those extra frames are funny things - some people can spot
the flicker on CRT's + light bulbs even when running at 50hz, despite
the human eye having a theoretical 25hz limit - it's one cause of
migraines + headaches for some poeple

it will still be nice to know the actual hardware specs

muff

Posted via MoDaCo SmartPhone - http://www.MoDaCo.com/smartphone

the pockettv team

I agree, I also get headhaches from the flickering of neon lights and I can
somehow see (or rather feel) the flicker of neon lights with peripheral
vision.

But I don't think that any framerate higher than 30 fps will make a big
perceptual difference on the screen of a small device like a cellphone.

And when you try fps higherv than 30, you may have some timing accuracy
issues, because the clock on the device (e.g. GetTickCount()) is not very
accurate (maybe 10 ms). So it may be difficult to display the frames at a
very precise, regular and accurate timing.

So I'm not convinced it would be worth spending a lot of time on those high
fps.

the pockettv team

I agree, I also get headhaches from the flickering of neon lights and I can
somehow see (or rather feel) the flicker of neon lights with peripheral
vision.

But I don't think that any framerate higher than 30 fps will make a big
perceptual difference on the screen of a small device like a cellphone.

And when you try fps higherv than 30, you may have some timing accuracy
issues, because the clock on the device (e.g. GetTickCount()) is not very
accurate (maybe 10 ms). So it may be difficult to display the frames at a
very precise, regular and accurate timing.

So I'm not convinced it would be worth spending a lot of time on those high
fps.

muff

I agree, I also get headhaches from the flickering of neon lights and
I can
somehow see (or rather feel) the flicker of neon lights with
peripheral
vision.

But I don't think that any framerate higher than 30 fps will make a
big
perceptual difference on the screen of a small device like a
cellphone.

And when you try fps higherv than 30, you may have some timing
accuracy
issues, because the clock on the device (e.g. GetTickCount()) is not
very
accurate (maybe 10 ms). So it may be difficult to display the frames
at a
very precise, regular and accurate timing.

So I'm not convinced it would be worth spending a lot of time on those
high
fps.[/quote:e856bf23f6]

this is more of a request for more technical information about the
phone

at the moment we have no idea what the speed of the memory, the
throughput of the cpu, the screen latency, etc

I agree that pushing for the extra frames may seem pointless, but that
doesn't mean we shouldn't find / know the limits of the system and
our code

and by pushing closer to the capabilities of the phones, we will get
better games + apps

say for example they said that the screen refresh had a max of 15fps -
that would affect the effort you put into getting your product to be
capable of 30fps wouldn't it? or at the very least encourage you to
think of different ways of displaying the image to create a smoother
experience than 15fps might deliver

my point is that at the moment, we just dont know - we are all going
on personal 'feel' which can be hugely different

different phones may use different components that run at different
speeds, different versions of roms in different countries may have
different overheads on the processor - but again we just dont know

as MS set the hardware standard, surely someone can at least tell me
the performance window that they specify this sort of stuff run
within

muff

Posted via MoDaCo SmartPhone - http://www.MoDaCo.com/smartphone

scott moore [msft]

There really is no point in developing at higher than 30fps. In fact, for a
smartphone size screen, I'd move it down a bit until you find it
"acceptable".

As far as higher frame rates go, there's really no point in spending too
much time on the LCD specs. You're gating item for full screen motion video
and video conferencing applications will probably be the CPU and battery.


--
Scott Moore
Microsoft Corp. - OEM Mobile Devices TAM

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