booker t

Hi, all.
I inherited a number of PCs (Compaq Evo D300vs, P4 1.8g,
20g HD) from a previous employee. The previous IT person
configured them with just one large (20g) partition.
In spite of the 7.8g boot partitionl limitations, these
PCs (108 of them) have been running fine for more than 2
years.
The amount of actual data on the drive is around 1.3g.
So, my question is...is the limitation a real concern, or
should I only be afraid if the actual amount of data on
those drives goes over the 7.8 limit.
Any input from individuals who have dealt with situations
similar to this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I've aleady read all the knowledge base articles
pertaining to this issue. I'm hoping for input from anyone
who has "bent" the rules.

rob stow

It is *not* the amount of data that is the determining factor
when your system partition exceeds 7.8 GB.


The only thing that matters is the *placement* of critical
files. These critical files include: $MFT, ntloader,
ntbootdd.sys, boot.ini, ntfs.sys and a few others that
are needed early in the boot process. So long as those files
are fully within the first 7.8 GB of the partition you have
nothing to worry about.

The fact that those systems currently work indicates that those
files are *currently* safely positioned within the partition.
So long as nothing like a defragger moves any of those files
you should be OK - and recent versions of the better defraggers
like PerfectDisk and DiskKeeper will *not* move those critical
files beyond the 7.8 GB mark. As well, re-installing the OS, a
service pack, hotfix, etc can cause a file to be moved across the
magic line.


I have tested this out a few times - primarily to demonstrate
to a skeptical boss or co-worker the dangers of big system
partitions. Either of these two tests works every time for me:

Test A
1.) Install NT and SP4.
2.) Fill the partition with 8 GB of crap.
3.) Install SP6 or SP6a.

Test B
1.) Install NT and SP6 or SP6a
2.) Fill the partition with 8 GB of crap.
3.) Install the post-SP6a hotfix rollup.

Note also that the MFT reserved zone (MFTRZ) is usually a big issue
when you have large system partitions. An NTFS partition
will, by default, set aside the first 15% of the partition
for the MFTRX - this holds the MFT and reserves space for future
growth of the MFT. All other files on the partition are placed
*after* the MFTRZ. Hence if you have a 40 GB partition your MFTRZ
takes the first 6 GB of the partition, which means that any other
critical files on the partition will be uncomfortably close to the
7.8 GB magic line.

I suggest you play it safe and use a tool like Partition Magic
to shrink those big partitions down to a 2 or 4 GB and then
partition the rest of the the drives however you want.

--
Reply to newsgroup only please. This e-mail account is real
but effectively abandoned because of excessive spamming.

calvin

Hi Rob and Booker,

It would be interesting to find out how many people have broken the system/boot
partition barrier rrules and have gotten away with it ? I suppose the other
obvious question is then also have many have subsequently got caught out badly ?

Calvin.

PS: Rob - did you check out the Knowledgebase list - it's now up and running at
http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au

A lot more work to be done, but it will do to be going on with :-)

rob stow

I've "broken the rules and gotten away with it", but I always
go back to safe sizes because I am well aware of how easy it is
to make things go wrong.

I've never been "caught out badly" and I don't know anyone who
has because this is not really a dataloss issue. You can easily
wind up not being able to boot from the partition, but all of your
files will still be there and can be easily recovered by - for
example - putting the drive in another NT machine.

I have, however, heard of others who lost everything. Personally
I think it was just ignorance of their part: they were unaware
that all of the files were still there and very easily recovered.
I think they merely found themselves unable to boot up and gave up
too quickly before wiping and reinstalling.


I've taken a quick look at it and had a few ideas.
I'm pretty busy for another week or two and then I'll see if
I can find something to contribute.

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booker t

Thanks everybody for your input. I believe that these
machines will be okay as the software that is on them is
limited to SP4 i.e. does not work when upgraded to SP6.
This had nothing to do with the 7.8 boot limitation, as
our engineers tested it out on a 4g NTFS partition, and
after applying SP6, the software would just error out and
not work. Their solution was to leave it at SP4.
Also, the users do not have internet access. We dial in
through our domain server, which we keep updated with
firewalls and all the MS security upgrades. So, there is
not alot of chance of viral infection, etc.
If, for some reason, they decide to upgrade and/or can
make the apps work with SP6, then I will definitely follow
the excellent advice given here.

Thanks again.


away with it ? I

it's now up and


on with :-)

real