marc wielage

As I said elsewhere in the message thread "Suggested Compromise On The Pat
Boone Issue," there's a lot of complex, convoluted, and controversial
arguments you can make as far as what constitutes the _real_ rock & roll of
the 1950s, vs. the traditional pop music of that era.

I missed one of Michael Scarlotti's original message, which didn't make it to
my main ISP's server, but found it elsewhere. Below are my responses.


Scarlotti@searchhawkmail.com (Michael Scarlotti) commented:

As close to "Last Kiss" or "Teen Angel"? No. To me, both of those are Rock
Ballads; "Moody River" is still solid Pop to me, mainly by virtue of the way
it's sung and by the arrangement.


I try not to characterize everything the ARTIST does as one particular genre.
To me, the song gets the classification; not the artist. I do this mainly
because there are clearly artists that jump back and forth to different
genres; for example, Bobby Darin could slide from rock & roll ("Splish
Splash") to pure pop ("Beyond the Sea") to country ("You're the Reason I'm
Living").

But I would agree that all of the artists you name are solidly rock & roll.
I tend to put the songs of artists like Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and Little
Richard in a hybrid R&B/rock & roll category, since the songs had their
greatest success on R&B stations. But certainly none of them are Pop.

Maybe the opposite is also true: I propose that your definition of Pop is
too *wide*, and you're trying to shoehorn in any kind of uptempo Pop that
begins to show a little influence from rock & roll arrangements. To me,
those songs _still_ aren't rock & roll songs! At best, we're looking at a
sliding scale, where maybe the song is 10% or 20% rock & roll, and 80% pop --
and that's not nearly enough to put it firmly in the rock category.

By the way, for the record (no pun intended), I believe the first bona fide
charted rock & roll hit was Bill Haley's "Crazy Man Crazy," from the summer
of 1953. That song, followed a year later by his version of "Shake, Rattle &
Roll," influenced a lot of what happened afterwards. And all of that was
well before "Rock Around the Clock," where most historians date the
beginnings of modern rock & roll.

Whoa! Oldies stations do NOT just play rock & roll. They play tons of Pop,
R&B, Soul, Disco, and even a dash of Country -- because all of those
different genres were prevalent on radio stations during the 1950s and 1960s.
True, rock music dominates oldies radio playlists, but it ain't all rock &
roll, not by a long shot.

I again ask: by whose definition? I just went through 30 messages in the
"Pat Boone issue" thread, and I don't remember seeing a single person who
agreed with you that Pat Boone was a rock & roll artist, nor that he
performed rock & roll music. Again, my opinion is that he was a Pop artist
who performed cover versions of R&B songs, arranged and performed in such a
way to placate a (mostly) white audience. It's the watered-down arrangements
and Pat's own laid-back singing style that prevent them from being rock &
roll, in my book.

I readily agree that some ignorant 1950s journalists termed what Pat
performed in the 1950s to be "rock & roll music," but I think that's because
they used the term interchangeably with POP music. For older audiences in
the 1950s, I'm sure they were confused by the erosion of the great jazz, big
band, and vocal crooners of the 1940s. To the old fogies stuck in that era,
I'm sure a lot of the music of the mid-to-late 1950s sounded like a lot of
noise.

So the bottom line to me would be: Pat Boone was considered by some in the
1950s to be a rock & roll artist, but he doesn't fit that definition today.
Since I live in 2004, and not 1954, I go with the modern definition.

I'll agree only in that I also consider Bobby Vinton to be a straight-up Pop
artist, with a capitol P. Never did anything even approaching rock, but I
think he had some terrific hits. "Blue Velvet" and "There! I've Said It
Again" are among my favorite songs, as a matter of fact. But they ain't rock
& roll. Vinton's songs get played by oldies stations because they were HITS
-- not because they're rock & roll. Just because a song is one doesn't mean
it's automatically the other.


I don't agree. To me, the Everly's were doing bonafide rockabilly, or at
least kind of a rock/pop/country hybrid that was more rock & roll than
anything else. I think most of what they did could be classified as either
"Country Rock" or "Rock Ballads," but again, the songs had the *attitude*


Loved," and I think that's another point to distinguish them from artists
like Pat Boone.

I object to a lot of what the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame does, particularly in
omitting out some important early R&B pioneers, but at the same time, I
understand their attitude (without necessarily agreeing with it). They often
cite INFLUENCE as a major issue for including an artist, and I'd argue that
there were few other artists that tried to sound like Pat Boone, let alone
tried to sing the same songs he did. So I don't think he had a lot of
influence on other artists.

Again, don't misunderstand me: Pat's a huge part of Pop music history, and
is still in the top dozen or so artists of all time (in terms of American
BILLBOARD chart success). But that doesn't make his music rock & roll, and
again, "Pop" is not an insult. Sinatra was almost certainly one of the
greatest singers of the last century, and he was Pop as well (with some
sidelines into jazz), and he was incredibly influential -- still is. But he
doesn't belong in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, either.

Sometimes that's deserved, but sometimes it isn't. You gotta admit, though,
hearing Pat Boone sing "Tutti Frutti," "Ain't That a Shame," or "Long Tall
Sally" is a weird, out-of-body experience. I personally never got the
feeling Pat even *liked* singing those songs; I got the impression he was
more or less forced to sing them by the Dot execs who wanted more hits.

But at the same time, I have no problem enjoying the straight-ahead Pop hits
of the 1950s. We talked before about Patti Page; her big hits, like
"Detour," "Mockingbird Hill," "Tennessee Waltz," and "Cross Over the Bridge"
are dynamite songs, ones I have no problem listening to, and I'd classify all
of them as being 1950s classics. I wouldn't dismiss any of those as "bland"
or "square" at all. Same with some of

Johnnie Ray, though... well, we'll leave that for another argument. :-)

--MFW

scarlotti

1) Because the Searchhawk address is dead and therefore spam-free. It
is my preferred address.
2) Because the Blumpfy address hasn't been killfiled by half the
members ... yet.
3) Because the Whiskeyandgin .... okay, long story. Last week, or so,
my server would not allow me to post on this group. It kept showing
posts from three days previous. The new posts would appear briefly,
then disappear as soon as I read one or two. But even when I read
them they wouldn't take posts.

A member who knows that Whiskeyandgin is my address (I've used it in
the past, but had retired it -- insofar as posting to the NG was
concerned) contacted me there and sent me a link to access the NG via
aol. This method didn't allow me to select an address. It simply
used the Whiskeyandgin one.

So Whiskeyandgin is back.

Also, I only post from two (not three) computers.

This one, my home computer, is currently set to the Blumpfy address.
Why? Because I clicked the little box that said keep me signed in and
don't ask for my password for two weeks. Translation: I'm lazy.

I don't know, but they do. Probably because Bob accuses me of being
everyone who likes Popular Music -- with the rest of the Peanut
Gallery following suit.

That's a joke. Actually I identified Jakers as myself the first time
I used it. And I've just reiterated it to you and/or anyone else who
reads the post.

I guess the members who haven't killfiled me yet are also aware it.


Whoa! I don't understand computer-speak. I haven't any idea what
you're talking about. What is a "dedicated Newsgroup Reader"? What
is "dedicated" in computer jargon? What is "Outlook"? "Entourage"?
and what have they to do with the basic program?

Also my Windows is not functioning at present, so I doubt I could use
Outlook even if I knew what it was.


Too much work (and I can never make head nor tails out of the "help"
thingees.

My motto re computers is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
(Otherwise one ends up deep-sixing their Windows program so that only
the internet and my cd player still work.)

My current name/address work fine in my opinion, so I've no desire to "fix" them.

I doubt it's your fault. As noted above, my server was screwed up
last week and doing all sorts of weird things.

scarlotti

Agreed. And you touch on a salient point concerning my take on that
below (which I'll address there).


It's a tough call, but all three strike me as being rock era pop.
Connie Francis' WHO'S SORRY NOW is more my idea of a rock ballad --
and it's a good 50 percent pop.


Fair enough. Certainly many pop singers were extremely versatile and
impossible to limit to one, or even several, genres. Of the above,
however, only Elvis successfully crossed over to other genres. Buddy
Holly was leaning in a pop direction at the time of his death, but
we'll never know how far he would have pursued it. Jerry Lee Lewis'
"country" records aren't all that different from his "r'n'r" stuff.
The 20 or so selections on my Bill Haley & The Comets tape are
strictly r'n'r (or rockabilly, depending on your definition of the
above). Chuck Berry's (with the exception of MY DING-A-LING) are not
only all r'n'r, but all shamelessly borrow melodies and guitar riffs
from another (SCHOOL DAY=NO PARTICULAR PLACE TO GO, LITTLE
MARIE=MEMPHIS, and so on).

The sad truth is that r'n'r -- exuberant as it is -- doesn't demand a
great deal of vocal ability on the part of its singers, and
consequently the majority of its artists haven't got enough (vocal)
talent to crossover to other genres. Rod Stewart was one of the best
of the 70s rockers, but his recent attempts to sing the standards is downright embarrassing.


Agreed, in Darin's case. Like Elvis and Pat Boone, he was also a
talented vocalist who needn't limit himself to the r'n'r genre.

Chuck and Fats have a great deal of pop elements in many of their
songs. SWEET LITTLE SIXTEEN, with its plug for Bandstand, is
decidedly a pop rock song. I mean, IMO Chuck's songs are closer to
ALL SHOOK UP and RUNNING BEAR (hard pop rock) than to ROBERTA or RIP
IT UP (straight r'n'r). And I don't think that I'm just splitting
hairs here.

The lyrics of many of Berry's songs specifically refer to young teens
and adolescents (mainstream var.) whom I take to constitute a large
part of his (original) fan base. I mean, when I was 13-19, the idea
of a hot little sixteen year old in tight dresses, lipstick and high
heels shakin' it all over American Bandstand had a far different
connotation than it does to me as a 40-year old father. (No, "Daddy,
Daddy" is not going to whisper to Mommy that it's alright.)

Fats, otoh, is harder to classify -- except by calling "New Orleans
Style" which (having no other reference point) I generally define as
"Fats Domino Style." Certainly some of his biggest hits, like
BLUEBERRY HILL were 30s standards with a backbeat. Fats' records from
1950 sound exactly like his records from 1959 -- and turn up on pop
collections almost as frequently as they do on rock collections. I
consider him to be the 50s' equivalent of Fats Waller (although Waller
as a far more influential figure in the development of modern music
than was his later counterpart).

Little Richard is definitely hybrid of r'n'r and r&b.


My definition of Pop is a wide one.

I see Pop as the collective name for mainstream American music running
from Stephen Foster to the present day. Under this definition, r'n'r
is seen as a part of mainstream pop -- the predominant form of popular
music in the latter half of the 20th century. So I'm not just trying
to claim that uptempo pop songs are r'n'r...rather I'm stating in no
uncertain terms that nearly all r'n'r music is pop.

(More on this later.)


I'll elaborate on this below as well. For now, let's say that I think
that 10% is more than enough to qualify them in the r'n'r category.
Mainstream pop underwent a major change in the mid-50s... and the
songs that reflect this change are situated squarely in the r'n'r category. (See below.)

Again, we're in highly "complex, convoluted and controversial" waters.
I don't want to label the late 40s/early 50s as a "transitional"
period -- because the transitional aspect was only one of the many
elements (and IMO one of the lesser elements) that constitute this
period (which I hold to be the greatest period in American music).
However, a transition was going on in mainstream pop at this time --
and that transition would have profound and far-reaching results circa
1955, when r'n'r began its reinvention of mainstream pop.

Was CRAZY MAN CRAZY a significant factor in this transition?
Certainly. But other songs like The Crew Cuts' version of SH-BOOM,
The Ames Brothers' RAG MOP, and Johnnie Ray's CRY were equally
significant in regards to this transition. CRY gets my vote as the
first bona fide r'n'r song because it was the first of the
transitional songs to include all three elements of r'n'r proper (pop,
r&b, country). CRAZY MAN CRAZY is a later transitional song, and thus
more closely akin to (if not indistinguishable from) the final
product, so I can understand your reason for championing it.

SH-BOOM, and many r&b songs from the early 50s can also claim that
they are virtually indistinguishable from the final product, so I
don't think one song will ever have an undisputed claim to the title.


True, by post r'n'r definitions. But under my "wide" definition, all
the above fall under the general head of "r'n'r" or "rock" -- which is
the blanket term for ALL post-1955 music that doesn't adhere to
pre-1955 forms.

PATCHES is a rock-era ballad. It may not be r'n'r in the strictly
defined sense of the term, but it's got even less in common with the
big band era music that preceded r'n'r.


I believe a couple of people in this NG agreed with me -- to some
extent.

However, if you look at the quotes by various r'n'r musicians,
historians and d.j.'s (pasted from THE PAT BOONE POLL which asks
whether or not PB should be inducted into the R'N'R HoF), you'll find
testimony from many people who believe that he is a r'n'r artist and
that his songs were r'n'r songs.

Here's the link to the complete list:
http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/burnet/patboonepoll.html

(EXAMPLE from THE PAT BOONE POLL: "Yeah, I'd say so. That's how he got
famous was by doing rock'n'roll. I liked a lot of the stuff he did, a
lot of it was covers, but we used to do a lot of his stuff. 'Love
Letters In The Sand,' stuff like that. Pat's problem is kind of like
Ricky Nelson's. I thought Ricky Nelson was one of the best,
personally. I really liked all his stuff, man he was good, but he was
too laid back kind of like Pat Boone, and folks think they weren't
wild enough. Heck, everybody wasn't wild playing rock'n'roll." -- Sonny Burgess)


And again, the operative words here are "in (your) book." In Sonny
Burgess' book Pat Boone "got famous...by doing rock'n'roll." IMO as well.


BINGO!!!!

This is the passage in your post I'd alluded to at the beginning.

Yes, to those of us who grew up listening to big band music, r'n'r and
popular music from 1955 on are interchangeable terms.

Okay, I know, I'm only 40 and didn't grow up during the big band era
-- but that's beside the point. I grew up listening to mostly big
band music -- and what early 50s (pre-r'n'r pop) I was able to find.
And it was a heckuva lot easier to find big band music than early 50s
pop.

Johnnie Ray is one of my all-time favorite singers -- now. But it
took me a while to warm up to his style. When I first heard him, I
didn't care for his style as I considered it to be r'n'r. Ditto for
Connie Francis and Johnny Mathis and Tommy Edwards and Rosemary
Clooney (her uptempo hits, that is). Their sound was as different
from the big band era sound as night is from day. It was new and
noisy and was an unwelcomed intrusion whenever it appeared on one of
my various artists collections.

In other words, I experienced the changes in music in a similar manner
to the parents of 50s r'n'r era teens (insofar as such a thing is
possible). I didn't listen to the popular music of my day. I wasn't
entirely joking when I told Dennis C. that I couldn't place Eddie
Money. (I've since looked him up and recognized a couple of his songs
-- one cannot help but get exposed to contemporary Top 40 tunes no
matter how hard one tries to avoid it -- though I wouldn't say that
I've ever actually listened to them.)

My all time favorite records tended to date from the late 40s/early
50s (and still, largely, do) -- post big band: the era of the
big-voiced, emotional ballad singers like Laine, Mitchell, Gibbs,
early Bennett, Brewer, Page, Starr, Lanza, Martino, Fisher, et al. I'm
sure that it was through my love for their style of singing (itself a
major break from the big band era style), that I was able to come to
embrace the sound of Ray, Francis, Edwards and Mathis as well -- and
through my acceptance of them, early r'n'r.

Had my tastes run more towards the big band/crooner end of the scale
(Sinatra, Crosby, Eberly/ie, Haymes, Damone, Como, et al.), I would
never have grown to like Ray and/or r'n'r.

Pat Boone was in a category by himself...well, actually with Elvis. I
liked both Pat and Elvis long before I came to appreciate Ray,
Francis, Darin, Dion, Holly, et al. I didn't see all that much
difference in their music or their personas (I'm talking about when I
was an adolescent -- cut me some slack). APRIL LOVE was little
different from an Elvis movie (Pat even played a juvenile deliquent in
it), although in retrospect, I can see that it was a better film than
most of Elvis' (and the title song little different from some of
Elvis' title songs: LOVE ME TENDER, LOVING YOU). Pat's hair was
shorter and he dressed better and didn't mumble, but otherwise I
didn't see much difference.

And, truth be told, I don't see _that_ much difference btw them even
today. (They both covered Little Richard songs, too.) Elvis is
greaser cool, whereas Pat Boone is preppie cool -- but both are still
cool 50s icons and teen idols and sang pop rock tunes and made movies...


That's your prerogative.

I try not to live in 2004 (as much as is humanly possible) and would
much prefer to live in the 1950s. But that's another topic.

The bottom line for me is that Pat Boone was considered a r'n'r artist
in the 50s, has always been considered a r'n'r artist by me, has far
more in common with Elvis than Crosby (even if Crosby is his idol),
and will always be a r'n'r artist in my eyes -- first impressions die hard.

Bobby's r'n'r to me -- or, at least, a r'n'r era star. True, he's
very soft rock -- one step above The Fleetwoods. True, his songs
contain more traditional pop elements than rock elements. But ROSES
ARE RED is a product of the new form of mainstream pop (post 1955) and
sounds nothing at all like a big band era record. So he's r'n'r as
far as I'm concerned.


BIRD DOG is probably their hardest rockin' song. Maybe BYE BYE LOVE
of POOR JENNY. TAKE A MESSAGE TO MARY fits into the quasi folk ballad
category of LOVE ME TENDER and FRIENDLY PERSUASION. DREAM is a mostly
pop rock ballad like APRIL LOVE and LOVING YOU. But then Pat Boone's
RIP IT UP, AIN'T THAT A SHAME, etc., are also rock songs (regardless
of how poorly _you_ think his style approximated r'n'r).


As I.B. PICKIN notes in this thread:

"Boone was a cross-over that provided a foot in the door for what we
today would call 'more rock-oriented' performers to get their music
bought. Was he what we today would consider a 'rocker'? Obviously
not. But does his contribution merit a place in Rock and Roll's Hall
of Fame? You d@mn well better believe it does -- because without such
influence, the dominant form of music today might just as well be
Indonesian Heavy-Metal Kazoo music. Boone sang songs that passed for
rock back then -- remember, rock was not exactly formally defined
then, any more than it can be now -- and he sang them with pop
styling. No, that didn't make them 'rock'. You can play 'Inna Godda
Davida' as a polka, too, but that doesn't make it a Polka -- all it
does it make the tune more acceptable to polka fans...but what's wrong
with that?"

To me, this counts as "influence" -- big time.


Agreed. Sinatra doesn't belong in the R'N'R HoF.

But people who don't believe that Pat was a rock 'n' roller (like I.B.
Pickin) think he belongs in the HoF.

And, as I've noted before -- Pop Music is the highest title that an
artist can aspire to in my estimation. I love pop -- both tradition
and r'n'r pop -- though I prefer the traditional variety.

But the role Pat Boone played in the early history of r'n'r entitles
him to one of the first and highest places in the R'N'R HoF.
Regardless of what you might think of his music (good or bad, pop or
rock), he, maybe even more than Elvis, made early r'n'r acceptable to
mainstream America and in doing so played perhaps the most significant
role possible in the reinvention of mainstream American pop in the
post-1955 r'n'r mode.


They struck me as odd the first time I'd heard them -- but this was
due to my having been so indoctrinated in the Little Richard/Fats
Domino versions over the years (d.j.s won't play Pat's versions).
However, once the initial shock from the difference in style wore off,
I realized that I like Pat's versions better. No, they're not my
favorite Pat Boone songs. But they are r'n'r -- and they're pretty
d__n good r'n'r at that. (As noted: Pat's more traditional pop-based
approach to r'n'r made it more acceptable to parents and "square" kids
-- and to people like myself who needed to get warmed up to r'n'r.)


Agreed 100%!

I already managed to work it into the above.

On 10 Jun 2004 09:44:56 -0700, Scarlotti@searchhawkmail.com


<snip>


(EXAMPLE from UNSCIENTIFICTHE PAT BOONE POLL by Ken Burke and Gary
Pig Gold

Ian Whitcomb

Ragtime Raconteur and one-time Father of Irish Rock

Ian Whitcomb - Skinhead admirer

I'm sorry Boone decided to go heavy metal, thus denying
his impeccable wasp background.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Somebody must stand up for pure white traditions and if it has to be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
me, so be it."

Johnny Legend

Filmmaker / Rocker / Wrestler

"I think he belongs in the Rock'n'Roll Hall Of Fame if only for In A
Metal Mood

Nardwuar

Human Serviette

"Yes, only because of his 1997 release "In A Metal Mood: No More Mr.
Nice Guy."

Steve Knopper

Music Journalist

"I believe Pat Boone deserves inclusion solely on the basis of his
heavy metal album. Best damn version of "Smoke On the Water" I ever
heard. Or were you looking for something less facetious?"

Beverly Paterson

"Twist And Shake" Magazine

"Yes, Pat Boone should be inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Simply on the basis of his heavy metal album from a few years ago!"

Geoff Cabin

"Rock Beat International" Magazine

If we are going to have a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, however, the
answer to the question of whether Pat Boone should be inducted into it
depends on what criteria is used for induction.

I don't know the actual criteria, but I would look at two things:

(a) Did the person make any significant musical contribution to rock
'n' roll?

In the case of Pat Boone, the first question is easily answered. No,
he did not make any significant musical contribution to rock 'n' roll.
His only musical "contribution" was to record watered-down versions of
songs originally recorded by Fats Domino and Little Richard for sale
to the white teenage audience. If making a significant musical
contribution is the sole criteria for induction into the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame, Pat Boone definitely should not make it.

Brett Milano

Bosstown journalist

"Yes, but only by virtue of that cocktail version of "Stairway to
Heaven" he did a few years ago."

Billy Lee Riley

Sun Records Legend

"I don't think he does, to be honest with you. I don't think it's
necessarily how many hit records you have that gets you in there. I
think the induction should be based on whether the artist's
contribution is a milestone for rock'n'roll or not. That's the way I
look at it. I'm not anti-Pat Boone, I just don't think he belongs in
the Hall Of Fame."

Barbara Pittman

Sun Records Legend

"No, I don't believe so. When I saw him do 'Tutti Frutti' I said, 'Man
if I was Little Richard I'd cut his hands off.' I'm sure he's a very
nice man but he is not rock'n'roll. He wasn't even good pop. I don't
know him personally and I'm certainly not going to judge his character
or anything. I think he's funny though. I thought that heavy metal
outfit he wore a few years back — I thought it was great to have that
kind of nerve

Jon Sievert

Humble Press

"I was a teenager during the Boone plague, and I say he shouldn't even
be allowed to visit the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame. Pat Boone was the
ultimate anti rock-and-roll figure, created by record companies for
the sole purpose of shielding white America from the likes of Fats and
Little Richard, while ripping them off. And his music really sucked,
which should be the ultimate criteria for determining worthiness."

marc wielage

C'mon, Michael. That ain't no excuse. It isn't THAT difficult to go in and
change your goddamned name. Takes five seconds, in the PREFS and/or ACCOUNTS
settings (with most software).

It's more screwed-up on AOL, but that's brain-dead software, anyway. (Note
that I don't characterize all AOL users as brain-dead -- just their
software.) Is that what you're using to get online?

Naaaa. You're just not willing to spend five minutes to learn how to use
this stuff properly. Trust me, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to
use a Newsreading program, or configure your Newsgroup accounts to just have
ONE name.

I don't pretend to be a computer expert -- I just know enough about computers
to be very dangerous -- but I do know enough so that I can use the Internet
efficiently. I suspect if you tried the same thing, you'd get far more out
of what you do every day, and maybe even a lot faster than you are now. It
takes no great skill to do that.

As much as I'm a Mac-head, I dive right into XP and have no problem using it
at all. I look on computers as a means to an end; I worry more about what
I'm doing with them and what I'm trying to accomplish, rather than a specific
operating system or any of that crap. Just use the right tool for the right
job. It sounds like what you're trying to do is the equivalent of using a
skateboard to move down a highway: sure, it can be done, but you'd be a lot
more comfortable driving in a car.

--MFW

blumpfy

<snip>

And the results of the poll (as reported on the site) are:

ANALYSIS
As I see it, there are two interesting factors here. One, how many
respondents actually have little or no respect for the Rock'n'Roll
Hall Of Fame in Cleveland. Two, how big a split exists between the
attitude of the writer/historian types and the actual artists of the
50s.

The writer/historian types make the biggest and harshest case against
Boone's induction. Even those who voted "yes" seem to damn him with
faint praise and ridicule the very question. By contrast, musicians
are strongly in favor of "Mr. White Buck Shoes" being inducted.
Moreover, Boone's contemporaries overwhelmingly believe induction into
the Rock Hall to be a genuine and sincere honor, and that Boone is
worthy.

At this point it is important to note that we tried to get votes and
commentary from Little Richard, Fats Domino and his
collaborator/producer Dave Bartholomew. As Hall Of Fame artists who
were affected, possibly even enriched by the cover version trend, a
yes or no from any of these men would certainly carry a lot of weight.
Unfortunately we got no further than publicists, managers, and
answering machines. Likewise, calls to Jerry Lee Lewis and Bo Diddley
went unanswered.

Fats Domino's brother-in-law Reggie Hall told us Domino doesn't like
to make public comment and would probably say he thinks everyone
belongs in the Hall Of Fame. Generous idea, but not exactly a vote one
way of the other.

So, is there a solution? Not based on this survey. The Rock Hall crowd
certainly wouldn't be swayed by a vote this divided, even on a wider
scale. As a result, it seems Pat Boone's best shot at induction would
come whenever the Rock Hall took a tip from the Baseball Hall Of Fame
in Cooperstown and instituted an Old-Timer's Committee. Of course that
would mean ceding power and prestige to a group not heavily tied to
either the museum or the major labels that support it.

The guess here is that Mr. Boone is in for a bit of a wait.

What Is The Author's Stance On This Issue?

This may shock my fellow R&B-aficionados and Sun Records-addicts but
"Yes, I think Pat Boone deserves induction into the Rock'n'Roll Hall
Of Fame in Cleveland."

I'd say that Boone wouldn't qualify for induction if the Rock Hall had
set the following rules.

All 50s inductees must rock in a style similar to Jerry Lee Lewis,
Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, etc.

The music of all inductees should still sound like rock'n'roll out of
context of the era in which it was produced.

All inductees must personify the "bad boy" aspect of rock'n'roll and
should have an arrest record or receipts from the Betty Ford Clinic to
prove it.

However, no such rules exist!

As stated by the Hall's own website
(http://www.rockhall.com/hof/process.asp), the rules for a performer's
induction are pretty simple.

"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of
their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of
the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock
and roll."

That's all! It doesn't say "except Pat Boone," or "except Herman's
Hermits," or even "except the Archies." It also doesn't say anything
about guys with squeaky-clean images or practicing conservative
Christians not being inducted.

Boone advanced the cause of rock'n'roll's commercial prospects, making
it possible for the down and dirty stuff we cultists like to get what
little exposure it did. His early successes were decidedly rock'n'roll
in the context of the era's playlists and he was the music's first
true teen idol. In addition, he made rock'n'roll acceptable at a time
when singing black-oriented music was a severe risk for a white
artist. He sold tons of records that helped establish a new industry,
in the process turning rock'n'roll into a legitimate branch of show
business. All of which means that Boone more than meets the Rock
Hall's qualifications.

To suggest he should be denied induction on the basis of his being a
successful white artist in racist times is just plain wrongheaded
thinking.

Granted, he wasn't the hard rocker his friend Elvis was, but any Hall
Of Fame that considers James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, or the Mamas and
the Papas to be "rock'n'roll," should provide a place of honor for Mr.
Pat Boone.

(END QUOTE)

cjrogan2003

Speaking of R'n'R vs. pop, Scarlotti, why was rock 'n' roll bashed by
liberal college professors and psychologists? That is one of the most
inexplicable anti-rock attacks. I still can't understand why all the
adults over 25 hate it if it was merely the next phase in pop music?

Also, here are even MORE examples of myths:

Lots of websites play on the myth that all these performers had their
careers destroyed because of Chuck Berry and Little Richard. The
reason why they lost their popularity was simple: because they were
not old enough for the teen audience, and because they started getting
a lack of good material. Its like their trying to equate the "rock 'n'
roll takeover" with the British Invasion, which was a real takeover.

"He had a big hit in early 1956 with 'Band of Gold', which went to #4
on the charts. He had several more top 40 hits that year, but then
Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino took over the
charts and he never had another top 40 hit again. He's yet another
victim of the rock 'n' roll tidal wave."
-a review on amazon.com for a Don Cherry collection put out by
Columbia. The same reviewer says the same thing and uses those same
names for Guy Mitchell, Jaye P. Morgan, Joni James and even the
Crew-Cuts.

"He was successful until 1954-1955, when he went off the charts. Most
figured he was another victim of rock 'n' roll."
-in one of Guy Mitchell's obituaries

"By 1958, rock 'n' roll had taken over, and there was no room for this
sweet old fashioned girl on the charts."
-VH1's biography on Teresa Brewer; strange considering almost
everything she did was either rock or something very close to it.

"By the mid '50s, rock 'n' roll had taken over the charts almost
completely. Many performers wished it never happened."
-a review for Time Life's "Your Hit Parade" series, which ironically
includes many of the pop rock/proto-rock songs.

Also, get a load of this:
"Johnnie Ray's 1956 version of Just Walking In the Rain is appalling
when compared to the Prisonaires' 1953 original. It takes a beautiful
R&B tune and makes it inexplicably cheery. In other words, its just
more middle of the road pop." (Johnnie Ray's 1956 hit is a remake of
an obscure 1953 R&B record that didn't even hit the R&B chart! I've
heard both of them, and I can tell you that Johnnie's version is 1,000
times better than the Prisonaires' version!)

And this:
"The '50s was an age of conformity. Everybody did everything alike.
Everybody must watch Your Hit Parade and everybody must listen to
Perry Como, Rosemary Clooney and Mitch Miller. That's why teeagers
hated this land of grey-flannel squares and rebelled against the pop
music. They did so through rock and roll."

....and this:
"The contrast between the adult's hi-fi in the living room playing
Sing Along With Mitch and the kids' 45 playing Little Richard was the
first example of the generation gap"

....and this:
"Work With Me Annie, Annie Had a Baby and Annie's Aunt Fanny were
enormous hits with white teenagers. The hidden connontations made them
all the more titillating, and kids had to hide them from their
parents."

....and this:
"The inferior, middle-of-the-road pop cover records were extremely
popular with adults, but teenagers weren't buying them at all. They
were buying the real thing, and that's why the covers eventually went
out of style."

....and this:
"For true fans of rock 'n' roll, the teen idols are a nightmare, as
much a threat to rock 'n' roll as were the middle-of-the-road pop
singers that were their inspiration."

....and this, from a Web site linked by Doug:
"Television hammered home the lessons that were deemed important in
the 50's. Happy kids, healthy families, standards for life were set by
such shows as "Ozzie & Harriet" and "Leave It To Beaver." The
television kids of the 50's stressed "you must be normal!" But rock
was a force that moved American youth into a totally new form of
existence. This new form of music ran opposed to everything that the
television had deemed acceptable. Weirdness was embraced through such
people as Little Richard. Rock 'n' Roll and its black origins, its
words, style and implications threatened white parental society.
Through the Beats and Rock 'n' Roll, the rebellion against suburbia
was started. Both of these cultural phenomenon punched a gaping hole
in 50's style conformity. Rock 'N' Roll was labeled subversive. Little
Richard fed off of the conformity that was so prevalent in the 1950's.
He emerged in a decade that was bred on the homogeneity of life.
Richard shook things up, embraced being weird and let it make him a
success.

....and this, one of my personal favorites:
"Light melodies, sweet lyrics, wholesome singers. Innocent and
inoffensive songs. All of this can be said about the music of the
early Fifties. Yet, all that white American complacency could not hold
back the vitality of Black R&B music, so a whole new sound emerged -
Rock and Roll. Most of the songs of the Early Fifties were "feel-good"
tunes, which genuinely reflected the mood of post World War II
America. Artists like Pat Boone, Rosemary Clooney and Perry Como
dominated pop charts. This bored the newly independent life form known
as teenagers. Mom and Dad's music wasn't, you know, "cool, Daddy-O."
-from http://www.fiftiesweb.com (most of that sounded like the stuff on
Doug's website! I am boycotting his website permanently)

Here are more examples of the crap on Doug's Web site:

"In the forties the major record companies decided to abandon the
black artists, race records and their black audience for the following
reasons: they felt that Blacks disposable income was such they could
not afford to buy many records, the high overhead for talent scouts,
who had little knowledge or expertise of black tastes, and racial
bias.

"Tutti Frutti was exactly what the teenagers were looking for loud,
spirited music with a beat, performed by a flamboyant singer who their
parents wouldn't like. Little Richard would have fourteen top ten r&b
and two top ten pop hits in eighteen months.

"On Monday evening, July 5, 1954, Elvis, Scotty and Bill went to Sun
Records for their first recording session. They were nervous despite
Sam Phillips' efforts to loosen things up. They worked in vain on the
Bing Crosby hit, Harbor Lights, and on the country ballad, I Love You
Because. Finally they took a break late in the evening. During the
break Elvis picked up his guitar and started clowning around, playing
the fool on That's Alright Mama, the Arthur Crudup blues song. Elvis
went up-tempo as first Bill, and then Scotty, joined in. In the
control booth Sam Phillips heard the sound, the new music, he
had been looking for. He stuck his head out the door asking, "What are
you doing?" The boys answered, "We don't know." Turning on the tape
Sam said, "Well, back it up, try to find a place to start, and do it
again." Rock n' roll was born."

scarlotti

I'm not familiar with these quotes, so my answer must be looked at as
one of pure speculation. However, I'd feel pretty safe guessing that
the following factors came into play:
1) Teen oriented music isn't going to appeal to adults
2) The juvenile delinquent image that the music industry and Hollywood
were using to sell r'n'r certainly wouldn't appeal to professors who
feared they'd have to cope with students imitating the hoods in
BLACKBOARD JUNGLE
3) Pyschologically teen music both intensifies teenage self-absorption
and serves as a tangible form of separation (and often contention) btw
teens and their parents.
4) Rock 'n' roll (insofar as it brought various elements from "race
records" into the mainstream of popular music played on pre-existent
racial fears (both Laine and Ray started out on race labels and were
originally thought to be black singers).

Well, a lot of the adults in the late 40s and early 50s hated Frankie
Laine and Johnnie Ray as well (two of the main precursors to r'n'r).
Frank Sinatra (to take but one famous example), who trashed r'n'r as
"sung, played, and written ... by cretinous goons" hated Johnnie Ray
at least as much. He also made fun of Laine's hit CRY OF THE WILD
GOOSE.

Here's what THE VIRGIN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FIFTIES MUSIC has to say about
Ray:

"His stage performances with their overt sexuality and hysterical
audience reaction, made him persona non grata to parents of teenagers
worldwide. For a few years in the 50s, he enjoyed phenomenial
success, revolutionizing popular music and symbolizing teenagers'
frustrations and desires."

The entry also mentioned how: "Later in 1951 he recorded two songs
that were produced by Mitch Miller and on which he was backed by the
Four Lads: Cry and The Little White Cloud That Cried. Cry was a smash
hit, reaching number one and staying there for eleven weeks. The two
songs served to indicate that the big band era had run its course, and
possibly for that reason a lot of people didn't care for them at all."

Similarly Laine's early hits are often cited as marking the demise of
the big band era.

It doubt that parents and/or big band fans were too thrilled with
songs like SH-BOOM and RAG MOP either.

Especially ironic when these same websites also acknowledge that
Berry, Domino and Richard didn't receive the popularity or success
they supposedly deserved because "whitebread" singers like Pat Boone,
Georgia Gibbs and The Crew Cuts stole all their thunder when they
covered their hits.

I can't say as I agree with you on the issue of there being a lack of
good material available for pop singers. That's also a part of the
myth (though a part usually taken by the "swing" fans -- who
"legitimatize" their music by sticking to the same canon of accepted
standards). Actually most of the early 50s pop singers concentrated
on albums during the late 50s/early 60s and for those who were
successful at it (Day, Laine, Page, Starr), there are consequently
more great songs from them during this period than ever before (due
primarily to their increased output).

Georgia Gibbs (trapped in her newfound r'n'r stereotype and vilified
for making "cover" records); and Johnnie Ray and Eddie Fisher
(targeted by the tabloids of the day) were some of the casualties.


Sounds like he's writing his "reviews" from a template.

But the question should be _did_ r'n'r destroy the careers of these
artists? Many of the early 50s greats continued to record albums
throughout the 1960s. What r'n'r _did_ was to keep their singles off
of the charts -- but how long did the average artist "chart" in
previous eras? Evelyn Knight, Dorothy Shay, Margaret Whiting, and
others only charted briefly in the 40s.

Mitchell (one of my favorites) had a run of 8 or 9 years on the
charts, and continued making albums in the 60s. James had less hits
to begin with, but continued to produce albums throughout the 60s.
She seems to have changed her vocal style somewhat after her first few
albums, and her later stuff generally leaves me flat. Jaye P. Morgan
has a good voice, but not a great one. Unlike Day, Brewer, Page,
Starr, Gibbs and others, there are no immediately recognizable
characteristics in her vocals. Her chart days would have been limited
regardless of r'n'r. The Crew-Cuts, however, were definitely r'n'r
casualties, but not because they sounded so different from r'n'r (I
consider them to be pioneer rock 'n' rollers). Their popularity fell
in part because of their ages (mid-20s), partly because of their
Clean-Cut image, and partly over the backlash over "cover records."


Everybody loves a comeback story. This is just a dramatic buildup for
his "comeback" with SINGING THE BLUES the following year.


Strager still that artists like Perry Como, Doris Day, Jane Morgan and
Johnny Mathis were still charting. And -- strangest of all --
Teresa's recording of EMPTY ARMS charted in 1958!

Yeah, rock dominated the charts in, say 1956, with songs like ALL THE
WAY, ALLEGHENY MOON, CAN I STEAL A LITTLE LOVE, FRIENDLY PERSUASION,
INAMORATA, LOVE IS A GOLDEN RING, MAMA FROM THE TRAIN, NO NOT MUCH,
PICNIC, STANDING ON THE CORNER, A TEAR FELL, TRUE LOVE (by that
rockin' Bing Crosby!), WHATEVER WILL BE WILL BE, YOU DON'T KNOW ME, etc.

I've heard both too, and agree that Johnnie's is infinitely better.
It was also the bigger hit.

This is pure fantasy. It would be laughable except for the fact that
people actually buy into this nonsense.

Basically teens then (as before, and in the present day) rebelled
against their parents' styles/values/society. When you're a teen
(either jobless or working as a low-paid soda jerk) you're on the
outside looking in where the professional world is concerned. The
easiest way to compensate for one's consequent feelings of frustration
low self worth is to lash out against a system that often seems closed
off to them (you need experience to get a job, and a job to get
experience).

The professional workplace demands a high degree of conformity (when
on the job) even today. But these same middle class suits were buying
highly individualistic two-tone sports cars with more chrome and
bigger fins than at any other time in history. Their music (early 50s
pop) was also more varied than at any other time. Early 50s teens
modeled themselves on younger, actors with antisocial, nonconformist
images (Clift, Brando and Dean), but adult stars like Bogart, Ladd and
Widmark sported even more antisocial, nonconformist images.

IMO both teens an parents in the early 50s were enjoying an era of
unheard of prosperity, and both groups took advantage of their
increased leisure time to express their individuality at every turn.

Yeah, to somebody who has no conception that people existed prior to
Elvis Presley (BEP). In the film OF HUMAN HEARTS, 1938, James Stewart
plays a civil war era youth who rebels against the old fashioned
values of his father. James Stewart! The generation gap seems to
have existed back from the earliest days of history when Oedipus
killed his father, and Orestes killed his mother, and Zeus attempted
to kill his children, and generation after generation complained about
the fallen state of the generation that followed them.


I wonder what the author thinks of DAVY'S DINGHY? Or of the fairly
explicit content of I'M IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, PERSONALITY (Mercer, not
Price), THAT'S MY DESIRE, I WANNA BE LOVED, MAKE LOVE TO ME, etc.


Apparently this author found some amazing charts that actually
recorded the age of every man, woman and child who purchased every
record in the mid-to-late 50s!

That's because "true" fans of "rock 'n' roll don't like rock 'n' roll
at all, but are in reality fans of the equally obscure branches of r&b
and rab that contributed to r'n'r's formation. Both r&b and rab songs
enjoyed a brief (very brief) period of chart success in the earliest
days of r'n'r when the new form was still being defined. And yes, the
rise of the teen idols (rock as mainstream pop) killed what was left
of the r&b and rab movements.

ROTFLMAO. O&H was an idealized family (on MY MUSIC they mentioned how
programs like O&H showed not how we were, but how we'd like to be).
BEAVER was an often hilarious satire of the idealized values set forth
in shows like O&H.


"Weird" to me, connotes someone like Norman Bates or Gomez Addams.
Little Richard, in his pompador and lipstick was simply a quasi drag
queen (flame). But, of course, pop music had his counterpart in Liberace.

But of course, no 50s teens were racists!

I guess it was 50s teens who were responsible for all those novels,
plays and films from the post WWII period on that attacked prejudice
(both against blacks and jews): HOME OF THE BRAVE, GENTLEMEN'S
AGREEMENT, BOOMERANG, INTRUDER IN THE DUST, PINKY, NO WAY OUT, SOUTH
PACIFIC, etc., that helped to raise the national consciousness (of
whites) that paved the way for the breakdown of Jim Crow and the
desegretation movements of the 50s and 60s.

The most amazing part of it is that these 50s teens managed to write,
produce and direct many of these films, books, etc., back in the 1940s
-- when they must have still been adolescents! The mind boggles.


I was under the impression that both suburbia and the beats arose at
the same time, the postwar years of the 40s. How prescient of the
beats to "rebel" against suburbia when the latter was only getting started.


And "square," "clean-cut," "college boy," Pat Boone covered Little
Richard's numbers with even greater success. I don't know what he was
feeding off of, but I'm guessing he was significantly better fed.

Well if you ignore Patti Page hits like DETOUR and CROSS OVER THE
BRIDGE and concentrate on DOGGIE IN THE WINDOW, maybe...


Are we talking "r'n'r" or M.L. King????

ROCK 'N' ROLL was the heart and soul of the civil rights movement! If
you listened to rock 'n' roll music you qualify as a bona fide CIVIL
RIGHTS CRUSADER! (Support Equal Rights! -- buy your copy of AT THE HOP today!!!)

Yep, shiney, happy music:

"Up in the morning/Out on the job/Work like the devil for my pay...,"
"I'm aware/My heart is a sad affair/There's much disillusion
there...," "You made me weep/Cut me deep/I can't sleep, lover/I was
cursed/From the first day I fell...," "Your mother was crying/Your
father was crying/And I was crying too...," "But the further I go/The
more sorrow I know/Should've read that 'Detour' sign...," "Afraid and
shy/I let my chance go by/The chance you might have loved me too...,"
"All alone/My tears fall down like rain/Beside a rose/Of love that
froze/In 'Lovers Lane'...," "Drink to the dreams that will never be
mine/While I go drifting along...," "Sometimes I feel as lost as
leaf/Fallen from the tree on which I've grown/Panic all around me/The
black of night surrounds me/Like a child who's been left alone...,"
"Now I stand on the brink/Of a world that's so dreary and black/And I
won't even pray/For I know I can't go back...," "The grave will decay
you/And turn you to dust...," "Willow weep for me/Bend your branches
down along the ground and cover me...," and such.

But, of course, there were some "feel good" songs as well.

Just as rock and roll had "feel good" songs like AT THE HOP, TUTTI
FRUITI, RIP IT UP, ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK, JAILHOUSE ROCK, REELIN' AND
ROCKIN', ALL SHOOK UP, SPLISH SPLASH, and a million other upbeat dance tunes.

DADDY-O is my favorite Dinah Shore song -- from the late 40s. I guess
Dinah was one of those prescient 50s teens from the previous era.

I gave up on both long ago. But they're great sources to pull idiotic quotes from.

Implying that the major labels were catering to the black market in the 30s???

Translation: Little Richard had a grand total of 2 (count 'em!, TWO)
top ten hits.

But if LR was what teens were looking for, how come they bought more
copies of his songs when Pat Boone covered them?

(Don't answer, Doug. As I recall, you think that record store owners
would palm off copies of Pat Boone records on unsuspecting teens who
came in asking for TUTTI FRUITI!!!)


THAT'S how rock 'n' roll was born??? As a joke!!!???

Hey, it's got me ROTF.

But 1954? Isn't that kind of late? According to Bruce Grossberg,
Alan Freed coined the term "rock 'n' roll" back in 1953 (and mabybe
even earlier, but he hasn't found the tape of the earlier show where
he says it yet). I guess Doug isn't counting SH-BOOM (1953) as r'n'r.
Or ROCKET 88 (1951)...

Aw, Dougie... don't tell me you're one of those BEPers???

marc wielage

Assuming this is a serious question, where's your proof that this was true?
I've never heard this before. Show me a published book or a witness who can
say that college professors and psychologists bashed rock & roll in the
1950s.

I say that anybody who looks to pop culture as a scapegoat for society's
problems is barking up the wrong tree (to mix my metaphors). Also, both of
my parents were 25 in 1955, and neither of them hated or even disliked rock &
roll at all. True, they preferred Frank Sinatra and big-band music, and they
weren't fond of R&B music, but that's because jazz and pop crooners was the
music of their high school years, in the 1940s.

Naaaaa. That's a lotta bull, too. Look at the top 40 hits for 1956:

1. "Don't Be Cruel" - Elvis Presley
2. "Hound Dog" - Elvis Presley
3. "Singing the Blues" - Guy Mitchell
4. "The Wayward Wind" - Gogi Grant
5. "Heartbreak Hotel" - Elvis Presley
6. "Rock and Roll Waltz" - Kay Starr
7. "The Poor People of Paris (Jean's Song)" - Les Baxter with His Chorus &
Orchestra
8. "Memories Are Made of This" - Dean Martin
9. "Love Me Tender" - Elvis Presley
10. "My Prayer" - The Platters
11. "Lisbon Antigua" - Nelson Riddle & His Orchestra
12. "I Almost Lost My Mind" - Pat Boone
13. "The Green Door" - Jim Lowe
14. "Moonglow and Theme from 'Picnic'" - Morris Stoloff & His Orchestra
15. "The Great Pretender" - The Platters
16. "Hot Diggity (Dog Ziggity Boom)" - Perry Como
17. "I Want You, I Need You, I Love You" - Elvis Presley
18. "No, Not Much" - The Four Lads
19. "Blue Suede Shoes" - Carl Perkins
20. "Honky Tonk (Parts 1 & 2)" - Bill Doggett
21. "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" - Doris Day
22. "Canadian Sunset" - Hugo Winterhalter & His Orchestra with Eddie Heywood
23. "Allegheny Moon" - Patti Page
24. "Just Walking in the Rain" - Johnnie Ray
25. "Ivory Tower" - Cathy Carr
26. "Standing On the Corner" - The Four Lads
27. "I'm in Love Again" - Fats Domino
28. "True Love" - Bing Crosby & Grace Kelly
29. "The Flying Saucer (Parts 1 & 2)" - Buchanan & Goodman
30. "On the Street Where You Live" - Vic Damone
31. "(You've Got) The Magic Touch" - The Platters
32. "Band of Gold" - Don Cherry
33. "I'll Be Home" - Pat Boone
34. "Tonight You Belong to Me" - Patience & Prudence
35. "Moonglow and Theme from 'Picnic'" - George Cates & His Orchestra
36. "More" - Perry Como
37. "A Tear Fell" - Teresa Brewer
38. "Born to Be with You" - The Chordettes
39. "Friendly Persuasion (Thee I Love)" - Pat Boone
40. "Memories Are Made of This" - Gale Storm

TONS of pop hits on that list (at least, by my definition of Pop, not
necessarily Scarlotti's). Every one of them made the Top 5 and were major
hits.

Even by 1959, there's still quite a few non-rock & roll hits that made the
Top 40 for the year:

1. "Mack the Knife" - Bobby Darin
2. "The Battle of New Orleans" - Johnny Horton
3. "Venus" - Frankie Avalon
4. "Stagger Lee" - Lloyd Price
5. "The Three Bells (Les Trois Cloches)" - The Browns
6. "Lonely Boy" - Paul Anka
7. "Come Softly to Me" - The Fleetwoods
8. "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" - The Platters
9. "Heartaches by the Number" - Guy Mitchell
10. "Sleep Walk" - Santo & Johnny
11. "Kansas City" - Wilbert Harrison
12. "A Big Hunk O' Love" - Elvis Presley
13. "Mr. Blue" - The Fleetwoods
14. "Why" - Frankie Avalon
15. "The Happy Organ" - Dave 'Baby' Cortez
16. "Put Your Head On My Shoulder" - Paul Anka
17. "Personality" - Lloyd Price
18. "Charlie Brown" - The Coasters
19. "Donna" - Ritchie Valens
20. "16 Candles" - The Crests
21. "My Happiness" - Connie Francis
22. "Sorry (I Ran All the Way Home)" - The Impalas
23. "Sea of Love" - Phil Phillips with The Twilights
24. "Dream Lover" - Bobby Darin
25. "Don't You Know" - Della Reese
26. "There Goes My Baby" - The Drifters
27. "The All American Boy" - Bobby Bare
28. "(Now and Then There's) a Fool Such As I" - Elvis Presley
29. "My Heart Is an Open Book" - Carl Dobkins, Jr.
30. "Pink Shoe Laces" - Dodie Stevens
31. "The Big Hurt" - Miss Toni Fisher
32. "I'm Gonna Get Married" - Lloyd Price
33. "Tiger" - Fabian
34. "Alvin's Harmonica" - The Chipmunks & David Seville
35. "It's Just a Matter Of Time" - Brook Benton
36. "Lavender-Blue" - Sammy Turner
37. "('Till) I Kissed You" - The Everly Brothers
38. "Waterloo" - Stonewall Jackson
39. "Teen Beat" - Sandy Nelson
40. "Quiet Village" - The Exotic Sounds of Martin Denny & His Orchestra


But there's unquestionably a greater influx of rock as time goes on, no
question. But enough major Pop performers still survived, I don't think you
can necessarily say that rock instantly killed off Pop performers overnight.

Your comments kinda veer all over the map. I'm not quite sure what your
point is. Maybe if you re-state it succinctly, in one paragraph (or less), I
can come up with a response.

And what's this "Doug's Website" to which you prefer? I saw no URL in your
message.


--MFW

marc wielage

Small correction: he had FOUR Top 10 hits on the Pop charts (though two were
at #10), and 14 Top 10 hits on the R&B charts. Here's what he did in the Top
50 of the BILLBOARD Pop Charts:

#17 (1 wk.) - "Tutti Frutti" - Specialty 561 (12/31/1955)
#6 (1 wk.) - "Long Tall Sally" - Specialty 572 (3/24/1956)
#33 (1 wk.) - "Slippin' and Slidin' (Peepin' and a-Hidin')" - Specialty
572 (4/7/1956)
#44 (1 wk.) - "Ready Teddy" - Specialty 579 (6/23/1956)
#17 (1 wk.) - "Rip It Up" - Specialty 579 (6/23/1956)
#49 (1 wk.) - "The Girl Can't Help It" - Specialty 591 (1/12/1957)
#21 (1 wk.) - "Lucille" - Specialty 598 (3/9/1957)
#10 (1 wk.) - "Jenny, Jenny" - Specialty 606 (6/3/1957)
#8 (1 wk.) - "Keep a Knockin'" - Specialty 611 (9/16/1957)
#10 (1 wk.) - "Good Golly, Miss Molly" - Specialty 624 (2/3/1958)
#31 (2 wks.) - "Ooh! My Soul" - Specialty 633 (5/26/1958)
#41 (1 wk.) - "Baby Face" - Specialty 645 (9/1/1958)

--MFW