tambi_dude

It should be Shankar Jaikishen 'are'. They were duo.


One reason why SJ aren't rated highly by many is that
they debased Hindi film music. In fact, people like
my dad insist that the decline of HFM started in 60s
itself when SJ, in combo with Rafi and that monkey
Shammi Kapoor started producing absolute worthless songs.

Having said this, one can not ignore many good songs they
gave. Their repertoire was very impressive.

And BTW they were hugely successful too. IIRC they still
hold the record for being the #1 MD for the longest period
of time: 1950 to 1969.

I feel they had excellent command over the orchestra, except
after late 1960s when they turned loud. They could also come
with up superb tunes quite frequently.

rk-

tambi_dude

There is one more reason: The next generation of MDs weren't
that good. As simple as that.

The problem with Hindi film industry has been the same as the
problem with our cricket team. All good MDs were over by mid
70s, just like all good spinners were over by 70s.

Just look at non south MDs who debuted after 1975:

Rajesh Roshan (mediocre)
Bappi Lahiri (no comments)
Anand Millind (raddi)
Nadeem Shravan (raddi)
Anu Mallik (mediocre)
Jatin Lalit (mediocre)
plus many more.

In other words, not a single MD who can even remotely be called
as good. all of them have a very poor grounding in indian classical
music and have no qualms about copying.

rk-
ps: I am not including ARR as he is a south MD.

loony tunes

Bappi had more original contributions than the rest of the list you mention
above.

I would have to say the Anand Milind were by far the worst of the lot. I
cant recall a single original song that's noteworthy of even humming. After
finding out that the Akele Hain To Kya Gham hai...was also copied...Anand
Milind have sunk to the depths....

-k

afzal a. khan

Doctor Saheb,

You have given a very comprehensive list of
great SJ songs. But I was surprised to find
that you didn't mention another fine musical
score by them viz. "Aurat". Also, a few
omissions from a couple of films included in
the above list :

"Naache ang ang ang tere aage" "Raj HaTh"
"Haaye, tu hi gaya mohe bhool re" "KaTh Putli"

I believe "Raj HaTh" is a very underrated album.
Except for one "bharti" song, I thought the
entire score was quite superb.

As to why this duo is not discussed as often as
others on RMIM, one reason could be the prejudice
which a few RMIMers entertain towards them and
the influence exercised by their antagonistic
posts. All MDs can and do have their detractors.
But there should be a sensible acceptance of the
fact that all of them do have their admirers too.

An MD cannot realistically be expected to retain
creative faculties continuously or indefinitely.
There comes a time when he can no longer deliver
the goods. All MDs, right from Naushad, CR,
OPN onwards have gone through this phase. What
should nevertheless be recognized is the contribu-
tion they have made in their heyday. SJ could
not have been amongst the topmost composers for
so long if they had not been so good at their job.
Although we tend to discount their work in the
sixties, they did come up with some memorable
scores even during this period. I am referring
to films like "Jis Desh Men Ganga Behti Hai",
"Aashiq" and "Teesri Kasam". "Sangam" and
"Mera Naam Joker" had good music, although the
latter failed at the box office. Their (or
rather Shankar's) last hurrah was "Sanyasi".


Afzal

afzal a. khan

I haven't carried out any survey at a
personal level to determine whether the
level of discussion in respect of SJ or
SDB is lesser or more than that for other
MDs. But this perception is carried by
quite a few that discussions about SJ have
been, on the whole, less numerous than
what they deserved. What I have always been
trying to say is that one's liking for any
particular MD/s need not be associated with
any animosity or antagonism in respect of
others. If "A" waxes eloquent about Naushad,
that is no reason why posts about OPN should
arouse his hostility. If "B" likes RDB's
compositions, let him have his say. The same
goes for other MDs too. There is absolutely
nothing wrong about polite, civilised discussion
(for and against) about any MD/singer/song etc.
What I cannot understand is the covert (or
at times overt) hostility/resentment (sometimes
degenerating into use of vituperative language)
that characterizes such discussions often.
A light-hearted discussion on the lines of
the "safed saaRhi" syndrome is quite okay. But
let us not lapse into intemperate or abusive
language. When you say that there HAS BEEN
enough discussion on SJ and MM, you are indirectly
suggesting that any further posts about them are
quite uncalled for. Which should not really be
the case. The present thread is an instance
in point. A simple comment/query by "Ram Jaane"
has evoked a positive response from Nimish and,
what is more, a most respected RMIMer like Dr.
Guri has taken pains to give a very lengthy and
comprehensive list of great SJ numbers. I am
sure "Ram Jaane" will be very happy to read
these responses and if he acts upon the advice
contained therein, his musical horizon and
listening pleasure would definitely be widened.
When I first saw a College Library and all the
rows (in fact shelves) filled with books on
Jane Austen and Shakespeare, I felt thrilled
and wondered whether there was anything still
left to be written about them. Now (after more
than a half century) I know better. I am not
trying to compare SJ and MM with Jane Austen or
Shakespeare. But should we authoritatively
declare that ENOUGH has been said about these
MDs ? To conclude on a lighter note, I would
just smile (and do nothing else) if there is
another post on Salil and Mozart.


Afzal

naniwadekar

First of all let me make it clear that I did not mean that
that there HAS BEEN (in absolute tems) enough discussion
about Shankar-Jaikishan so far and hence no more is needed.
I only meant there has been enough of it so far and (here
is the unstated premise) enough of it will come by and by.

You had suggested that some antagonistic attitude (chiefly
by Ashok) was stifling discussion on SJ. It is possible but
I doubt it. Besides, if someone wanted to discuss SJ but was
scared, I would blame his/her timidity more than I would
blame Ashok who is only exercising his prerogative (in
a way which sometimes reduces his credibility IMO).

Re. RD Burman - I think he was an idiot and his fans,
on the whole, are to be termed lunatics. I don't know
how I could put it in polite terms. And even if I could,
I am not sure whether I would. Treating a moron's
taste with respect only results in morons gaining ground.
There are quite a few talented artists today whom
one can listen to with pleasure. But once stupidity
became socially acceptable, sure enough R D Burman
was followed by even worse MDs about whom
I don't know much. We have a difference of opinion
on this. Far from being polite, I feel there is a need
to be very rude. Even that is unlikely to work with
noise-loving ARR fans. But one can only try one's best.


One contributor to a Baseball forum (or maybe Tennis
forum) uses a sig. which has relevance here : He who
does not oppose a bad thing strongly enough does not
love a good thing strongly enough.


- dn

naniwadekar

I forgot to add here that these talents have been swept
off the main-stream. Today's cinema has no use for
today's Suman K or today's Sudha M. As a consequence,
talents like theirs operate in smaller concert circles. One
example which comes immediately to mind is Madhuri
Purandare. She is very active in Pune. Singing in Mumbai
would have meant singing for idiots like RDB and ARR.
I can understand why talented people wanted to have no
part in the film world of 1980s and 1990s.


- dn

ram_jaane_03

This post smacks of elitist(some may call narcisstic) attitude.


It is eminently hummable as compared to many of the songs
of the 80s or 90s.

Maybe only in your opinion and you can add that to your
sentences. The songs of 1940 don't qualify for golden
era in my book. If you don't agree to that, then thats your problem.

Please read the post properly. I had said his
songs in the 60s were superior to what he dished
out in the 80s.


Maybe. I will be only too happy to explore the
wider horizons of Hindi film music for the rest
of my life unlike you who has probably saturated
his desire to learn anything new about them and
hence has nothing better to do than mocking others
in this forum.

-RJ-

loony tunes

I agree with Ram Jaane on the count that your post reeked of an "elitist
attitude". It would really help a great deal if the "supposed-big-wigs" of
this group shed some of their attitude and be a little more accomodating in
their replies.

Who's to say/decide what's the Golden Era ? With all due respect to Prof
SS's lists and all, that doesnt say much. I dont know what was the basis on
which he classified those eras..(anyways..i dont have any problem with that)
My point it that it is far more healthy if we shed the condescending
attitude towards other posters. Not all are as well versed in all the
aspects of HFM. Instead of dismissing somebody's posts, it might be better
to engage in a little coaching, healthy debating so that the poster goes
back educated as opposed to being pissed off.

Well, that was my 2 cents.. Thanks for reading.
Kamesh

rkusenet

If you want to explore HFM, then the first thing
you have to do is get over KK/RDB combo. Start
with Lata/Madan Mohan or Lata/Salil Chaudhury songs.
And there are folks who will suggest Lata/Anil Biswas
or Lata/CRamachander combo too. I haven't heard much
of them.
After all this, in all honesty you will realise how
pedestrian was KK/RDB combo.

Since you are a tamil, you can try listening to
M S Vishwanathan songs also. A great composer IMO.

Good luck.

rk-