john lucas

That's it! I'm sick of seeing this lame campaign about this Uncle Tom/Water
Down Negro garbage. On & on & on & on...yappity yap....nag nag nag "what
does this water down negro thing mean" "why won't you answer me" "i wanna
know what water down negro means why won't you tell me" GRAAHHH! I'm sick of
it!

This post is to answer & hopefully SHUTUP this stupid nagging about this
definition. A definition which you already know I'm sure. But just to humor
you I'm gonna spell it out for you. You wanted the answer & now you got it.
After this post I don't wanna hear anybody saying they don't know what it
means anymore.

An "Uncle Tom". From an old book made in the 1850's "Uncle Tom's Cabin".
=========================================

***Uncle Tom- a black who tries to assimilate himself/herself into the
ancient cultural standard of the black being under the white through words
or actions. A black who though under the same social oppression tries to
accomodate views & practices that keep that black in that oppressive system.
=========================================
Though it's too much to go over, I'll give you a sliver of how this came to
be.

From the title character in the book Uncle Tom, the take on his attitude was
perceived to be highly accomodating & subservient to his white slavemasters.
THEREFORE to Black people who knew they had no need to be accomodating to
Whites for any reason, this became a negative stigma.


never fully paint the picture from a slave's perspective. At the time people
actually believed that slaves were happy to do this "life-affirming" work.
All over any ads or depictions you saw with Black people on them had the
smiling, accomodating man who was just so happy to be a slave for his
master. They actually had "scientific evidence" that black people had a deep
seated need to be in that type of lifestyle & to be there actually made them
happy. All part of the mass rationalization of this sick society.

This long held media stereotype about the too-happy Negro has LONG stuck
inside this society. Uncle Ben, Aunt Jemima, the guy on the Cream of Wheat
box. The Black as a servant-type just happy to be a servant. All those TV
roles with Black women playing the stereotypical "mammy". The maid. The lady
from Gone With The Wind. The woman from Tom & Jerry always yelling out
"Thoooo MAS!". Florida Evans. Nell Carter from Gimme A Break. And that was
as recent as 1981!
Louis Amrstrong & many black bands from that period. With the double row
wide blinding smile & the bugged out eyes as if just LOVING to be playing
for the whitefolks. These same performers however couldn't even stay in the
same hotels they played in. Curious.

That image was seen as non-threatening because it resided in that same
comfort zone of the accomodating black. He's not gonna hurt anybody as long
as he has that wide smile & those mannerisms. He knows his place. That's why
it was seen as negative because it played back in those same old standards.
Now you know why Miles Davis was serious as hell when he played & why people
in hip-hop rarely smile & always look hard. Or at least to smile just to be
accomodating.

Sometimes passed along unfairly as in the case of MC Hammer. Called a
sell-out because of his happy ways in the hip-hop world. Though the reason
for his vibrant nature was NOT for the reasons those who labeled him that
suspected.
============================================

***Watered Down Negro- essentially the same as an Uncle Tom. A diluted
negro. A black who bafflingly seems to support the side of the system that
oppresses him/her. A black with historical amnesia. One who somewhere along
the line got bamboozled, due to an ascenion of social status/money or
association, into believing that his cultural past (heritage) was inferior
to his/her current state & acts accordingly to reflect this new view.
A strong black weakened, diluted into a shell of his/her former self.
============================================
Put it like this...2 Black guys who work together in this business. Both
dedicated workers who provide a lot for the business. Time for
considerations for promotion from their white boss. One black goes in &
stands on his work history & credentials. He respectfully thanks his boss
for the consideration while maintaining his personal dignity & integrity.
The 2nd black goes in & says things that play up to that old social role
just so he can get the edge on this consideration. He talks bad about his
co-worker & labels all blacks as lazy or unintelligent or something else
negative. He says not in so many words that he's the "good" black that will
fit in & not cause trouble. He assimilates himself into listening to the
music the boss & the higher-level executives listen to not because he
personally likes it but because it makes him fit in better. He hides or
eliminates any trace of the activities he priorly enjoyed that could be
associated with his heritage. He begins to talk & act like these
professionals in this higher echelon. He downplays any strong trace of his
cultural heritage for fear of not fitting in. Anything he can do to be
"non-threatening" or "associable" he'll do it to get the job & associations
he wants.
Whereas the first one went in with respect for himself as well as his boss.
The other went out of his way to disrespect himself just to hopefully
appease his boss. Where before he was no different from the first one, due
to the motivation to fit in, this motivation to "succeed" he diluted his
integrity. He watered himself down or became watered down in this strive to
gain.

I hope this clears it up for you.
I may put down some later examples to illustrate this further if there's any
confusion.

John Lucas

bettybooptoyou

You don't have to read posts if you're sick of the thread. All you have
to do is kill the thread and you won't see them anymore.


Geez, she knows what it means. LOL.

john lucas

Ignorant fool. And furthermore what the hell would you care what this term
means anyway? It's not directed at you. Racist? Simple-minded girl. A
putdown for sure but racist?

Pam knew better than to answer your "innocent" request & honestly I did too.
I went against my better judgement to put it out there for clarification's
sake. So the argument would hopefully die. Hey I like a challenge sometimes!

I put the a little historical reference so you & everybody else could see
the meaning of how the term came to be.
"Uncle Tom" & "watered down Negro" were not terms invented by whites. They
were invented by Blacks as a way to signify those of them who associated
with a system that essentially kept them in that traditional subservient
role in society.

Hardly racist Gina if you read instead of glanced through.
I can answer your "one-drop rule" inquiry too if you'd like.

Betcha conveniently ignored my answer to you about "how does one sing
Black?". If you did I can easily point out that post to you.

Well at least I'll give you credit on your take on national politics &
Michael Moore. There's hope for you yet.

John Lucas


due

astral weeks

Oh, and here's a few articles that I find particularly telling, or of
interest:

http://www.s-t.com/daily/12-02/12-18-02/a12op061.htm
http://chronwatch.com/editorial/2002-03-23a.asp
http://www.multiracial.com/readers/farmer3.html
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jonah051401.asp

Etc, etc...

--

Gina

"Michael Jackson's just trying to cop my shit. I was insane years ago..."

Neil Young, 1988

--------------------------

"If you're ill at least you won't dress provocatively, thus you won't
encourage men to rape you." - Deggie

john lucas

Left out an important point in that last post about the Watered Down Negro/
Uncle Tom issue.

Another aspect of the Uncle Tom situation is precisely that...the name. Or
more completely the context of the Aunt & Uncle when referring to Blacks.

They would never call you Mr./Mrs. or at times even your own name. 1930's
even you got grown black men & women hearing stuff like "well if it isn't
Aunt Bessie Mae" "Hey Uncle Bill" from Whites. On the surface this seems
like a familiarity type of thing. Like they grew up with these people & it
was a show of signification of family membership. Seems innocent right?
No in reality what it really was a refusal to grant the same title of
respect to Blacks as they did Whites. When a white called you Uncle this or
Aunt that, that was supposed to be the apex of respect you should EVER
expect from a white. These blacks didn't grow up with these white people
like family; this was how whites referred to them when supposedly showing
formal respect.

If your name was Ella Johnson, it was either "Ella!" or "You!" or "Gal!" or
"Nigger!" or at best "Aunt Ella!"
NEVER "Miss Johnson" or "Mrs. Johnson" or "ma'am" or "madam" or "miss"

There was a court case in the 50's or 60's...(dang! I wish I could remember
the details off the top of my head!) where the judge held a black lady in
contempt because she refused to answer without being referred to as "Mrs.".
Can't remember her name at the moment but I'll use the Ella Johnson name to
paint the picture. "Would Ella please approach the bench?" "Now Ella, tell
me about...." "Aunt Ella where were you when..." || "Excuse me my name is
Mrs. Johnson" "You will address me as Mrs. Johnson" "I am not related to
you; I am not your aunt. My name is Mrs. Johnson"

See? An Uncle Tom would see nothing wrong with that & wonder why this woman
refused to be addressed in this manner.

Knowing this I know why my great uncle never liked to be referred to as
uncle from his own nephews.

It didn't matter if you were 65. A white boy of 10 could STILL call you
Uncle Bill or just Bill or boy to your face & you weren't supposed to do
anything about it.

Uncle Tom & Aunt Jemima paints the picture of the shuffling,
scared-to-rock-the-rockneedy-boat black who perpetuates not helps to
dismantle the social standards that would have them in this subservient
role.

Perpetuating a stereotype Gina? No, just calling out one.

John Lucas

tattoo vampire

You don't mention that at the novel's climax, Tom is whipped to death for
refusing to divulge the whereabouts of runaway slaves.

Stowe was an abolitionist, and in this book she was up front in her
anti-slavery beliefs. Yes, there are many valid criticisms that can be
leveled against Stowe and her book. Is it sentimental? Emotionally
manipulative? Is Uncle Tom a problematic character? "Yes" to all these
questions. But Stowe also achieves a remarkable sense of balance in the
book as a whole. The too-good-to-be-true, long-suffering Tom is
complemented by the more militant George. And Stowe achieves some truly
incisive cultural criticism. Particularly resonant is her analysis (often
through the dialog of her characters) of the use of both Christianity and
the law as tools by which the oppressive slave system was supported.

mfl4

Looks like school is in session once again, John. Carry-on, my brotha,
carry-on...