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1 29th May 18:45
brg
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Default What are we looking for? (spirit)


Just yesterday (the same day I heard "Searchin'" and realized I _did_
know what the song was) I heard an interesting example of why there's
so little agreement on here. I heard a version of the song "Cry" done
by Connie Francis.

Now, if you want to ask the question, "Which version, CF's or Johnnie
Ray's, is truest to the _spirit_ of the song," it has to be Johnnie
Ray's version. OTOH, if the question is "Which version is the most
pleasant listening experience," that of course might cause
disagreement, but to _my_ ears there is no question, and the answer is
the opposite from my answer to the first question.

_I_ tend to judge recordings by the second criterion. And so my
selections tend to be judged as "bland" by people who want something
different from what I'm looking for. That's the key to many of the
arguments on here.

(Apologies to Scarlotti, but he must know by now how I feel about JR,
so this posting can't be a big surprise to him!)

Bruce
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2 29th May 18:45
brojack
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Default What are we looking for?


If you want a bland "Cry," try the 1959 version by Reg Owen and the
Knightsbridge Strings.

Jack
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3 29th May 18:45
m
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I heard a nice version by Crystal ***le- bland, but nice

M
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4 29th May 18:45
robertjroman
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You say that like it's a bad thing.

Agreement is boring.

Bob Roman
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5 29th May 18:46
dean f.
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Default What are we looking for?


I agree! :-p
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6 30th May 09:28
scarlotti
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Default What are we looking for? (taste may so classical time)


BRUCE: _I_ tend to judge recordings by the second criterion. And so my
selections tend to be judged as "bland" by people who want something
different from what I'm looking for. That's the key to many of the
arguments on here.

(Apologies to Scarlotti, but he must know by now how I feel about JR,
so this posting can't be a big surprise to him!)

SCARLOTTI: No apology necessary. I know exactly where you're coming
from on this, as my original reaction to Johnnie Ray was also a
negative one -- and for similar reasons (he was too Rock 'n' Roll for
me at the time).

But I suspect that the key to many of the arguments here goes a lot
deeper than mere differences in taste. (After all, we disagree on the
merits of my 3 all-time favorite singers, yet manage to get along
exceedingly well.)

It seems to me that this group is radically polarized along
politically correct revisionist lines. Several very outspoken members
feel a need to champion semi-obscure R&B records as being infinitely
superior to many of the songs that constituted the era's biggest hits.
(Individual motivations may vary, but p.c. revisionism has permeated
our culture on a widespread scale, and its intrusion here is
indicative of this general trend.)

The arguments arise when the p.c. revisionists cast disparaging
remarks about the music enjoyed by others who don't share their
tastes, and/or launch personal attacks against non-revisionist
members.

Case in point:

On 12/6/96, one of the more outspoken revisionists stated (in somewhat
garbled english) "Johnny Ray [sic]‹like a prototype of Elvis he
borrowed a lot of his style from black singers."

Yet when I claimed that Johnnie Ray was inspired by black singers,
this same member responded (on 11/20/02) with "(Scarlotti's) bought
into the old, and vaguely racist notion that black music is mostly
defined by being more emotionally uninhibited than white music, and
thus Laine and Johnny Ray [sic], because they sing in a overly emotive
way compared to the understated crooners of the day, must be 'singing
black.'"

Now why should it be okay for this member to state that JR "borrowed a
lot of his style from black singers," but "vaguely racist" for me to
make a similar claim?

The only answer that makes any sense is one of context: In the 12/6/96
post, the member was making the statement to imply "vaguely racist"
overtones to your (BG2's) tastes. He claimed that your reason for not
liking Ray was because Ray was inspired by black artists.

Whereas in the 11/20/02 post, he was arguing agains my nomination of
Ray for the coveted "Father of R'n'R" title (although apparently none
too coveted by Ray himself). Thus I am labelled "vaguely racist" for
making the very same statement he had made 6 years earlier.

The obvious inconsistency in his _expressed_ point of view, merely
serves to highlight the painfully obvious consistency in his
intention: implying that anyone who disagrees with his "R&B uber
alles" tastes/historical perspective is "vaguely racist."

Nor is this sort of thing limited to this one member (he's simply
unfortunate to have gotten caught with his foot in his mouth). That
is, to the p.c. revisionists it is less important that you share their
individual tastes (it's okay to argue over whether Little Richard was
better than Chuck Berry or whether the Drifters were better than the
Coasters) so long as you agree that R&B is in every way the greatest,
most earth-shaking, original music ever to come down the pike (and to
reevaluate 50s music in terms of R&B).

It's cliquish and insulated, no doubt, but I suspect that too many
members have invested too much time in promulgating their revisionist
theories about 50s music to risk somebody blurting out "But the
Emperor hasn't got any clothes on!"


M : I heard a nice version by Crystal ***le- bland, but nice

SCARLOTTI: I've got the album. And I agree with your appraisal of the
song (with an accent on the "nice.")

My second favorite version is by Ge****a Gibbs. It's also done in a
different style from Ray's (the descriptive word that comes to mind is
"classical"), and while less emotional, it's incredibly beautiful to
my ears (much like Connie Francis' version, which I'm unfamiliar with,
is to Bruce's).

But, of course, the definitive version will always be Johnnie Rays'.
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7 30th May 09:29
robert j. boyne
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Default What are we looking for?


**************************
I disagree. (Grin).

Robert J.

--
Robert J. Boyne.Sutton Group West Coast Realty.North Vancouver/British Columbia.Cell. 604-644-6973.
************************************************** *************************************
" I have the good sense to know that unheard songs are often sweeter".
Email - a-great-realtor@shaw.ca
Home page - http://www.realtor-lower-mainland.com
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