misslindy

I have owned parrots for around eight years, and I absolutely love them. I
currently own a ****atiel and have been looking to add another bird to my
life. Within my research, I stumbled across some toucan information, and
they seem, well...too good to be true.

The biggest problem that I have with parrots is that they bite--hard. I
am a somewhat timid soul in the aspect of pain, and it makes my
relationship with my birdies somewhat difficult. Because my birds have
always known they can control me with a bite, is has made retaining
dominance impossible. While this constant tug-o-war for "head of the
flock" position is definitely wearisome, it is something that I have
endured simply because it comes with the territory of parrots; and
therefore it is worth it.

One of the main things that appeals to me about toucans is that I have
heard that they can't really deliver an effective bite. That their beaks
don't have the provided leverage and that they even have trouble squeezing
a g****. Still, I look at the taco toucan's beak, with its slightly
curved-down tip, and I am wary. It looks like they would at least be able
to give a sharp, painful pinch.

On the other hand, I have also heard the opposite--that while toucans
rarely bite, they still can--and that it is insanely painful. As an owner
of (a) toucan(s), what is your personal experience with this? Also, how
aggressive are toucans, in general, in relation to dominance and
territorial behavior? Because toucans are flock animals, no doubt they
feel the need to constantly challenge the one in charge. This is a
survival instinct and I totally understand it. However, pet birds tend to
develop serious behavioral problems when allowed the dominance position
over their humans. The reason why I have not been successful in dealing
with this behavior in my parrots is because of their painful bite. It
would be wonderful if I could find a bird that is physically incapable of
biting hard enough to scare me.

Thank you so much!

misslindy

I have owned parrots for around eight years, and I absolutely love them. I
currently own a ****atiel and have been looking to add another bird to my
life. Within my research, I stumbled across some toucan information, and
they seem, well...too good to be true.

The biggest problem that I have with parrots is that they bite--hard. I
am a somewhat timid soul in the aspect of pain, and it makes my
relationship with my birdies somewhat difficult. Because my birds have
always known they can control me with a bite, is has made retaining
dominance impossible. While this constant tug-o-war for "head of the
flock" position is definitely wearisome, it is something that I have
endured simply because it comes with the territory of parrots; and
therefore it is worth it.

One of the main things that appeals to me about toucans is that I have
heard that they can't really deliver an effective bite. That their beaks
don't have the provided leverage and that they even have trouble squeezing
a g****. Still, I look at the taco toucan's beak, with its slightly
curved-down tip, and I am wary. It looks like they would at least be able
to give a sharp, painful pinch.

On the other hand, I have also heard the opposite--that while toucans
rarely bite, they still can--and that it is insanely painful. As an owner
of (a) toucan(s), what is your personal experience with this? Also, how
aggressive are toucans, in general, in relation to dominance and
territorial behavior? Because toucans are flock animals, no doubt they
feel the need to constantly challenge the one in charge. This is a
survival instinct and I totally understand it. However, pet birds tend to
develop serious behavioral problems when allowed the dominance position
over their humans. The reason why I have not been successful in dealing
with this behavior in my parrots is because of their painful bite. It
would be wonderful if I could find a bird that is physically incapable of
biting hard enough to scare me.

Thank you so much!

louis boyd

I don't have experience with toucans, but maybe I can help with your
parrots. You're making a mistake if you try to be dominant over them
or let them be dominant over you. If you treat your parrots in such a
way that they accept you as part of their flock they won't bite you. My
three macaws are quite capable of inflicting severe wounds, but they
don't. It's a matter of teaching yourself how to behave so they aren't
threatened. It doesn't require teaching the bird anything.

Think about when they bite. Are you doing something that a friendly
bird might do or are you doing something a predator might do? Holding
them in your hand is an example of something a predator would do and a
friendly bird would never do.

Birds make good pets for the simple reason they crave companionship. All
you have to do is let them be a friend with the kind of friendship they
expect from a bird of their own kind. You may be able to dominate them
and make them behave the way you want with scolding, incarceration,
bribes, or physical force but if you do they won't be good companions.
--
Lou Boyd

james

You lost the battle a long long time ago. You also seem to be sadly
mis-informed about the existance of parrot flock hierarchies.


--
James

just molly

So where are the parrots? They live longer than 8 years usually.

You are not equipped to own birds or any other pet. All pets bite, all bites
can be painful. If you are that scared of being bitten, don't get a toucan
or any other bird.

pianoharp

If you don't want to be bit, but you want a cuddly bird, get a dove.
They are very defenseless, though, and it will be in***bent upon you to
defend them.
Canaries don't bite either, or at least you can't feel it. There are people
who have hand-tamed them, but I don't. Unlike what many will try to tell
you, canaries get to know you / your voice, and really do respond. They're
very smart.

misslindy

Lou Boyd - Thank you for your reply! I never looked at it this way. I
have been a subsriber to Bird Talk for several years, and it has been my
understanding that while birds are wonderful, companionship-oriented
animals, they are also extremely intelligent and can be controlling when
allowed the chance. I believe in "nurturing dominance," meaning that the
bird owner should be "in charge," but always in a loving, friendly way.
Scolding and physical force is absolutely unacceptable, I agree.

misslindy

James - I apologize, perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough. It
is my understanding that the way a flock operates is something akin to a
large family. Everyone is friendly and loving and helpful to each other -
and that's the way it should be. I also believed that there is one "head
bird," so to speak (though the terminology may be sadly off) that is
usually the highest up, watching for danger, etc.
I could be very wrong, in which case I am completely willing to recieve
correction. Do you have any information you can offer about the hierchy
of a parrot flock? If so, please let me know. Thanks so much for
replying.

P.S. One of the places where I got my information is here:
http://www.****atiel.org/articles/establishing.html
Let me know what you agree/disagree with.

misslindy

Just Molly -- You are correct, most parrots have rather long lifespans. My
****atiel is seven years old and in very good health. He sees an avian
vet, and is on an organic, undyed pelleted diet supplemented with fresh
fruits and vegetables. I love him very much, and while he is not a cuddly
bird, he loves his head scratches. He shows some territorial agression
around his cage, but anywhere else in the house he does not bite me. (For
example, he does not like when I have him step up onto my hand while he is
inside his cage.)
Where are my other birds? I owned a poicephalus parrot who died at four
years from a birth defect that could not be healed. I am heartbroken over
his loss, but I am confident that I gave him a very happy life. Thank you
for your concern. I, too, am very upset when parrots do not live out
their full lifespan due to neglect/misinformation. I have always made it
my goal to ensure magnificent health for all of my animals.

misslindy

Pianoharp -- Yes, I'm heard of finches/canaries behind handtamed. They are
truly lovely birds. My favorites are the blackheaded lady gouldians.
Have you seen those? They are truly remarkable. I will do some research
about doves; thank you very much for the suggestion.