nessa

Let's hear what folks have to say about a dog who's BAD behavior escalates
after the corrections for it have started. How long does it last in your
experience?

For those that care, the BIGGEST problem with Bagel right now is his
REFUSAL to give something up. I worked on drop it a bit with him tonight and
he seemed to freely give up the object we were using, however in real life
later tonight when I wanted him to drop something he downright refused. I
gave a correction and he snarled and snapped. Also he was a bit snappish at
the park tonight.

It strikes me that THIS behavior is escalationg while the other behaviors are
complying more and more. But the snapping and growling is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

and yeah it's getting worse since I started correcting him on it and making
him comply with everything else.

Just want to hear from others concerning escalation of behavior before
extinction.

Nessa
--
I don't have issues
I have subscriptions
http://www.nessa.info

=mic_heal

BWAHAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!

Another Janet Boss pupil moment.

BWAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAAAfreeeakinHAHAHAAAA !!!

Please tell us what kind of corrections Janet has you using and then we
can heelp you.

the producer...
live...
http://dogtv.com

ladybug0314

Actually Mic_heal I would PREFER To hear what everyone has to say
PRIOR TO MY saying what I am DOING.

that was the whole point of not discussing WHAT I AM DOING. I wanted
a FREE FLOW of INFORMATION.


now toddle off and pray for my un-repentant soul.

the puppy wizard

HOWEDY nessa,

Dogs do not have BAD behaviors, nessa.


You mean, after YOU HURT YOUR DOG as janet
boss has been teaching you, nessa?


FOREVER, you stupid c^^t. Abuse trainscends
generations, nessa. That's HOWE COME we got
to IDENTIFY, E***POSE, DISCREDIT, and DISPATCH
HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug
Cowards who HURT and KILL dogs to compensate
for their fragile defective ego's, weak fearful minds, and inferiority complexes.


HOWER DOG LOVERS will FEEL OBLIGATED to
KILL YOUR DOGS when you DUMP THEM at a
SHELTER nHOWE that you've caused them to have
a HISTORY of handler aggression, nessa.

You been readin HOWER forum?


That you HURT him and try to call THAT, training.


That's EZ to train a dog to do if you don't bribe
intimidate or offer replacements and stop HURTING
him for STEALIN STUFF in order to get your 100% undivided negative attention.

Did you nHOWE?


Yeah. Cause the dog knows you're PLAYIN.

Cause the dog is HOWEtwitting you, nessa.


You mean YOU HURT HIM, nessa, like HOWE
your pal janet boss is telling you to HURT your dogs.


Yeah. HE'S DEAD MEAT nHOWE, if janet boss
takes him off your hands at her "SHELTER."


INDEEDY. That's PREDICTABLE when we HURT
dogs, nessa. The Puppy Wizard's been teachin folks
here abHOWETS for five years nHOWE, that HURTING
DOGS MAKES THEM AGGRESSIVE HYPERACTIVE
AND GEST SOME DOGS DEAD.


That you and janet together don't have the intellect
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.


You mean, your dog's SELF DEFENSE?


That's the PREDICTABLE RESULT of REPRESSION.
Repressed behaviors DO NOT GO AWAY, they only
CHANGE, to other, often worse, seemingly non related,
TRAINSFER or REPLACEMENT behaviors.


YOU'RE GONNA KILL YOUR DOGS at the advice
of HOWER DOG LOVERS who got you into this
PREDICAMENT in the first place, nessa.


INDEEDY. That's PREDICTABLE, nessa. Look at
your DEAD DOGS, nessa, and say "THANK YOU,
janet for all your help."


You mean, HURTIN HIM, nessa, as janet taught you.


BWEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

That's HOWE COME your dogs went HOWETA
CONTROL long ago and destroyed your HOWES
like leah's and janet's dogs have done.

The Puppy Wizard has written abHOWET that before.
This is NOT an extinction burst. Extinction bursts last
only a few minutes while a dog is experimenting with
acceptable alternate behaviors.

What you're seein is AGGRESSION because YOU HURT
YOUR DOGS according to the advice of your pal janet.

Your dogs are DEAD MEAT. http://www.nessa.info/topics/bagel.htm


Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.


I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.


I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.


Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the
box first?)

Hello People,

Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.

----------------------------------------------

"I know that most men, including those at ease with
problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept
even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would
oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they
have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
-Leo Tolstoy-

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:

CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing
them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your
dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes,
shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or
punish your dog in any manner, that corrections
are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they
can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows HOWE.

Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686)
Phone: 1-888-WITSEND (1-888-948-7363)
http://www.doggydoright.com

Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a
problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who
come after. Who ever can't hit the nail on the head
should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on
praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and
timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant
corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-

The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizzzard. <}YPW ; ~ } >
oo-oo

dogstar716

Why are you correcting him? And how?

For dogs with resource guarding issues, the reason they growl and snap is
because they think you are going to take away their resource.

You need to start all over. Heres a link that shows how to make the appearance
of you and your hands a good thing:
http://www.doglogic.com/possess.htm
Dogstar716
My Dogs: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/TheBoys.html

mamawolf

X-No-Archive: Yes

Hi Nessa,

Sorry to tag on to Jerry's post, but your original post is not coming up on
my newsreader.

A few months ago I rescued a 2 year old male ****er spaniel, neutered at the
shelter before I brought him home. All I can say is, boy he was/is a
handful. I've spent a *lot of time examining his behavior and a LOT of time
just being *with him. It's obvious to me, with my dog, that he was horribly
abused/neglected in his previous surroundings. I started thinking about how
*I would feel, had I been through what he's been through in his short
lifetime.

At any rate, my approach from the beginning has been to work *with him, not
*against him. At the beginning I was told by other rescuers and trainers
"oh you let him get away with WAY too much". Well, maybe. But maybe not.
All I know is three months later I have a lovely ****er spaniel boy that
still has minor annoying issues that he and I are working on, together. I
don't know the names ofkey players around here, not do I *care to know...
but I know that what works for *me with all of my rescues has been kindless,
love, lots and lots and LOTS of time and patience.

I wish you good luck with Bagel, and encourage you not to give up!

Sincerely,
Kc

--
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help@asarian-host.net -- for all info about our server.
If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:

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alison

Hi Nessa,
I've not been following you posts but I remember when you adopted
Bagel and the problems you had. What correction are you giving? Does
it help if you offer something in exchange . Dibby the dog and Kim the
cat will do anything for a cat biscuit.
I think if you have an animal that is aggressive, it's better to
persuade and to avoid agro.
--
Alison

news:01HW.BB855D7A000132CE0A098B00@NEWS.MD.COMCAST .GIGANEWS.COM...

escalates

your

his

tonight and

real life

refused. I

snappish at

behaviors are

ACCEPTABLE.


making

before

tricia9999

You are making the problem worse. The more important and scarce you make the
resource seem to her, the more she is going to want to guard it and keep it
from you. Exchange things like a goody for the thing, tell her thank you and
give it right back to her. You will eventually have her bringing things to you
rather than trying to keep them from you due to your irrational possessiveness.

sionnach

possessiveness.

That's basically what I did with Morag when I first had her, and she
would steal things like food wrappers & get possessive. If it was something
she really couldn't keep, I'd give her a treat and praise her. If it was
something like a hot dog wrapper, I'd hold it for her to lick before
throwing it away. Once she realized that I praised and rewarded her for
giving things to me, she went through a phase of bringing me all sorts of
loose objects. She still brings me toys, bones, and tuna fish cans to hold
for her.
Part of what worked with her was being calm about the whole thing; to this
day, if you grab at her when she's got something, she'll jerk away- but if I
hold out my hand and say calmly "What have you got?" she'll give it to me.


Nessa, I was thinking about this very issue with Bagel this morning; you
say he doesn't have ball/toy drive, but since he DOES make a point of
snitching other dogs' toys at the park, I'm thinking it might be a good idea
for you to bring a couple of toys to try trading with.
Remind me to show you how I worked with Rocsi on "drop it" and "give it"-
I incorporated "TAKE IT" as well. You don't want to make a power struggle
out of it, esp. since Bagel IS a powerful dog.

the puppy wizard

HOWEDY mj,

Aren't you the dog abuser who's AFRAID to discuss
trainin here on The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forum.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >