prettierinpink@muchomailcom

Archives of General Psychiatry - Panic Disorders And Bladder Problems
-
Thyroid / Urologic / "Spay Incontinence" / "Leaking" / "Spraying" /
"Marking" /
"Urinating At Night" / HOWEsbreaking / Crating / Abuse / INSANITY And
LIES:
The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{) ; ~ ) >

Archives of General Psychiatry

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/3/273

The seemingly disparate conditions of panic disorder and
interstitial cystitis may be components of an, as yet,
unidentified genetic syndrome, suggest study findings
published in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Evidence from a genetic linkage study had indicated a possible
syndrome in some families with panic disorder that may include
bladder problems, thyroid disorders, chronic headaches or
mitral valve prolapse.

To better determine the nature of the urologic problems, and
the relationship between such problems and panic disorder,
Myrna Weissman, from Columbia University in New York, USA, and
colleagues assessed patients attending one of two urologic
units.

The participants included 67 patients with interstitial
cystitis, 79 with other bladder disease associated with
underlying anatomic causes, and 815 first-degree relatives.

The results showed that patients with interstitial cystitis
were 4.05 times more likely to have a lifetime prevalence of
panic disorder than patients without the urologic disorder.
They were also 2.22 times more likely than those without
interstitial cystitis to have any of the associated syndromes,
such as mitral valve prolapse or headache.

Moreover, the researchers found that the first-degree
relatives of the interstitial cystitis patients were also
around three times more likely than the relatives of
participants without the condition to have panic disorder,
thyroid disorder, or urologic problems.

"These findings together with findings from the genetic
linkage study, while still tentative, suggest that in a
subgroup of patients with panic disorder, interstitial
cystitis and other seemingly disparate disorders may be part
of the same syndrome," the authors write.

They add that their results could have implications for the
pharmacological treatment of interstitial cystitis.

"Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, which are effective
in panic disorder patients, might inhibit serotonergic
activation of mast cells and modulate exaggerated bladder
activity through down-regulation of central postsynaptic
serotonin receptors," Weissman et al report.


<liltkd...@shoesaol.com> writes:


From: TheAmazingPuppyWiz...@Mail.Com
Date: 4 Dec 2005 22:10:15 -0800

Subject: Re: Urinating at night HOWEDY matty,
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message news:Fri9722D4E3FB917australianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...


Yeah, but the TRUTH is, there AIN'T NO SUCH THING
as "spay incontinence', it's a STRESS problem made more
likely due to surgical ***ual mutilation in both male and female canines.


INDEEDY. MANY of HOWER dog lover's dogs here got it.


That's a LIE, matty.

Yeah, but you're a PROVEN LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASE, matty. Here's just a small sample of
HOWER regular dog lovers dogs with "SPAY INCONTINENCE":

5. RobinB.
Dec 2, 4:49 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: "RobinB." <izz...@excite.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:49:55 -0500
Local: Fri, Dec 2 2005 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: Urinating at night
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
"Alison" <ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:dmq5v1$hfv$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...


That's the problem. When I'm awake she'll jump at the door and
bark - but not at night; and I'm a very light sleeper. I agree;
I would hate to crate her day and night. She loves it during the
day. I say "time to get in your house" and she opens the door
with her paw. It's too cute.

Thanks to everyone with the suggestions. I 'spose I'll somehow
tether her on the bed and get up in the middle of the night to
walk her. She's due for her annual, so I'll have more of a
discussion with the vet as well.
From: "RobinB." <izz...@excite.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:14:48 -0500

Subject: Re: Urinating at night
"Janet B" <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message news:8eo0p1pdlmesa15mk8dtbeiholrcqmtkc3@4ax.com...

On 5 Dec 2005 03:55:23 GMT,
Rocky <2dogs@rocky-dog.com> wrote:

I'll restate. Spay incontinence isn't common, exactly, but I don't
think it's uncommon either. No, I'm really not trying to play games
with semantics. I don't know the statistical incidence, but spay
incontinence is not rare or unusual. However, it's easily controlled,
and it is not a good reason to not spay one's dog, IMO. Oddly enough,
we've had only one female with spay incontinence and three males with
urinary leakage.
Mustang Sally
"Melinda Shore" <shore@panix.com> wrote in message news:dn1esm$elk$1@panix2.panix.com...

From: "Steph" <stephhigg...@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:49:03 -0500

Subject: Incontinant vs anatomical

Hi again.
In about September I posted about my dog and that she was having
"accidents". It was basically when she'd lay down, there'd be a
wet spot on the floor. Well we put her on propalin after many
many urinalysis's and two rounds of different antibiotics. She
didn't have one accident on the propalin. She's been off it for
about two weeks now and today we're back at square one. She's a
lemon in many aspects that's why we were thinking that it was
anatomical.

When ever the vet would open her vulva, there would be some pooling
of urine there and occasionally I'd find a mild amount of puss.

The vet is thinking that since she was so perfect on the propalin
that it's incontinence. The thing that I'm hesitant about is that
she's only a year and a half old. I'm hesitant to have her on propalin
for the rest of her life. Newsgroups: alt.med.veterinary
From: "Jinxy" <j...@look.ca>
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 22:16:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Incontinant vs anatomical
"Steph" <stephhigg...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:GMadnS52kefPVRDeRVn-jA@rogers.com...

I just went through spay incontinence with my female. She started
leaking at I think eight or nine years old. She was put on
Stilbestrol...
(I'm in Canada too). The vet told me it was odd because spay
incontinence
should have shown up soon after being spayed. (she was year old when it

was done) I can't say Stilbestrol worked...because she still
leaked..just
the amount that came out was less.

Looking back now I kind of wonder if she was spay incontinent or
not. I've never heard of Propalin? Sounds like a new treatment.

Her vulva was like your dogs...pooling of urine and sometimes pus.
I hope you find a treatment that works.

It's hard to see our doggies not well.


From: Brian Kushner bkush...@snip.net
Subject: Pet Urinating In House After Spaying
I have a 6 month old dog that was completely housebroken.
Then I had her spayed a week ago and ever since she has
started back to taking her little spite pees on the rug?

What is causing this? She still is going outside.

Brian

From: "Avrama Gingold" avr...@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Pet Urinating In House After Spaying
Spay incontinence is not uncommon--and no, it is
not "spite pees" you are seeing. Your vet can provide
medication to control it.
From: Paula <mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005

Another thing I was going to mention before but forgot to:
Diva always had spay incontinence, but it got worse as she
aged, as did the risk of adverse reactions to the medications
that partially controlled it.

From: "medgirl" medgirl2...@nospamhotmail.com
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005
She was spayed when she was younger. She has had some
problems with incontinence in the last year or so, for which
she has been on phenylpropanolamine.
From: montana wildhack
The late Duchess of Doodle had spay incontinence

From: "Paul B"
She has "spay incontinence" which is effectively controlled
with propalin syrup, except when on steroids, the leaking
resumed but worse than ever.

From: dian...@bolt.sonic.net (diannes)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005
my dog with the apparent spay incontinence

"Kelly Randallgsske...@ix.netcom.com
Subject: ERT and spay incontinence
I have a female Dobe, age 2 1/2, who is beginning
estrogen replacement therapy for spay incontinence.

From: jgallant*NO*SP...@accessone.com (Jim)
Subject: Spaying and Incontinence
We have an eight year old female purebred
rough collie who was spayed at about 10
months old. She's had an incontince
problem ever since that spaying.

From: tasha2...@aol.com (Tasha2243)
Subject: Re: Spaying and Incontinence

We had a similar problem with our Golden Retriever
for about a year. She was incontinent at night. The
vet we were seeing prescribed estrogyn. Every once
in a while she would still have a problem.

From: "Chris Oldroyd" chri...@nospambtinternet.com
Subject: dog wetting problem

my 10 month old ****er spaniel has an annoying
habit of wetting on the floor she seemed ok until
she was spayed

From: mepst...@uiuc.edu (Milt Epstein) -
Subject: help with "leaky" dog (incontinence)
Hi. Look for comments/suggestions regarding our
dog, who's been having incontinence problems of late.

From: "Andrea shelton" a.shel...@virgin.net
Subject: 7 yr old Dalmatian bitch 'leaking'

I have a 7 year old Dalmatian bitch who has
recently begun 'leaking on her bed or cushion
in the evening.

From: JZIMGO...@webtv.net
She has already started drinking more, which
has made her spay incontinence worse.
Stephie <step...@seasurf.net> wrote:
We are getting desperate to figure out the problem
with the current dog. She has been on hormone
therepy, PPL (strengthens the muscles) and now are
trying the special dog food. Urinalysis shows nothing
unusual. She is 4 years old and this really started
about 6 months ago. Nothing we have tried so far will
control it. Has anyone else had such a difficult
case? Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks

From: carl.sohlb...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Carl Sohlberg)
Date: 1997/02/07
Subject: Re: Death During Spay?

Here in Sweden where dogs traditionally are not
neutered, hypothyroidism is a v-e-r-y unusual
diorder, and incontinence is only seen in very
diabetic dogs or bitches or in dogs with serious
kidney failure, or in a few puppies with
malformations in the urinary tract.

The risk for mammary or testicular cancer, or
pyometra is around 6% according to the very
accurate animal health insurance statistics we
have. It is a lower risk than the 10% risk for
spay incontinence usually given in international
vetmed literature.

The treatment is mostly successful and paid by insurance.
Not telling the caring dog owners all the facts about risk
associated with neutering is in fact to deceive them.

Educated and careful dog owners would never dream of
letting a bitch in season out by herself in the back
yard. Here, dogs are not allowed to roam the streets
and owners have a strict legal responsibility for
them - consequently we have no overpopulation among
dogs in Sweden. Eva

HOWEDY Deltones, Deltones wrote:


Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.


Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133. 1.4...


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133. 1.4...


From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. ---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

PERHAPS your mentally ill daddy or mammy will
come bye an give you another pretty cool spankin?:

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again: Janet B wrote:


"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction"
--Janet Boss

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was ****a's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my house," Charlie.
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain And
Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation Of Correction
To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making
The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future,"
grant teeboon RAAF.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context" sinofabitch writes:

Of curse THAT'S a lie.


Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?


No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

"Neatly," and "Smartly."


"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.


INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...


The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.


Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.n**et>:


Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn****sc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.


I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw

Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.co****m> wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She t*rusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>

wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...


"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue:

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20 ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:


Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>.. .


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined


"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03 BoxHill wrote:

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E. -------------------------------------
"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

wrote in message


"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That Interested In Praise."
"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message

news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

------------------------------------------------------

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)

Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise? Beth wrote:


Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will.... ~misty
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their careers
and reputations.... Jerry.

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and sharing...
j;~)

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:

16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry! =====================
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

DECENT PEOPLE DO NO POST HERE abHOWETS:

Here's professor of ****-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ****-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ****-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent*,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts *to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.


Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net http://www.i1.net/~dogman =====================


<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>


Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior ****ysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well do***ented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology