puddin man

Every year, for my healthy and stable adult (say, 6-10 yr-old) dog,
my vet recommends:

Duramune LGP Leptospirosis $5
DHPP 18

I acceded to this for the last 3+ years.

Now I find that the AAHA publishes canine vaccine guidelines
summarized at:

http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=46546

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the core vaccines, the taskforce recommends that the adult dog
receive rabies; canine parvovirus vaccine; canine adenovirus-2
(hepatitis vaccine); and distemper vaccines every three years.

The caveat to the recommendation, says Ford, is that there is good
evidence that the protection conferred in adult dogs by both canine
distemper and canine parvovirus exceeds five years.

Three years seemed a conservative, happy medium for all parties
involved, according to the taskforce.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

DHLPP is Distemper, Hepatitis (CAV-2), Leptospirosis, Parainfluenza,
Parvovirus (combined canine vaccine)

Does my dog need DHLPP every year? If so, why?

Thanks,
Peetie

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller

thesincerelyincrediblyfreakininsanelysimplyamazinggrandpuppychildpussybirdygoatferettandhorseywizard

HOWEDY Puddin' Man,

Surprise, surprise, surprise that noWON replied?

NO.

NO SURPRISE, Puddin' Man.

IT WAS PREDICTABLE.

We got LIARS DOG ABUSERS FRAUDS
COWARDS and ACTIVE ACCUTE CHRONIC
LIFE LONG INCURABLE MENTAL CASES
blowin smoke up HOWER arses for their own
profit at the E***PENSE of HOWER dogs lives.

SURPRISE?

BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!

dale atkin

Probably not. If I were you, I'd ask your vet why he recommends DHLPP
yearly, and not every three years. If they can't satisfy you (and to me, a
response of "OK we can do it every 3 if you like" wouldn't satisfy me), then
I'd change vets.

Possible reasons that might satisfy me:

1. You believe that risks of under vaccinating out weigh the benefits
conferred by a three year cycle.
2. You aren't confident in the research on which these claims are based
(establishing cause and effect can be surprisingly difficult).
3. Kind of goes with #1, and I doubt you'd get the vet to admit it, but I've
a feeling a lot of pet owners wouldn't come in for a yearly checkup with no
vaccines due, so given that you believe an annual checkup is important, in
order to get owners to come in yearly, you put them on a yearly cycle.
4. Local laws - self explanatory. More an issue with rabies though.
5. Prevelance of what you're protecting against. If you're in an area where
parvo- etc is really common, you wouldn't want your dog's protection lapsing
in the slightest. If for whatever reason, the first vaccine didn't take
properly (perhaps timing was wrong, and it was 'eaten' by the immune system
or some such thing), and the length of the vaccine is therefore comprimised,
you wouldn't want to have to count on it acting for 3 years, even if it
*should* last longer, do you really want to risk it? Conversely if in areas
where I take my dog, he isn't likely to come in contact with any of these
diseases (even if completely unvaccinated), then sure rely on the vaccine to
last 3-5 years.

Bearing in mind all of the above, the vaccine protocol my guys are on is,

Rabies - Booster at 1 year, and then every 3 years after
DA2PP - Same deal
Bordetella - every year.

I'm thinking my old guy is probably more or less done with vaccines. He was
probably vaccinated just about every year of his life growing up (before I
got him), and he'll be 14 when his next Rabies/DA2PP comes up (assuming he
makes it that far... he's a lab). Don't know if I feel like challenging his
immune system at that stage in his life.

Dale

puddin man

To include a rational explanation of such risks.

That'd be akin to challenging the efficacy of the AAHA. Very hard to swallow, methinks.

Yeah, and some owners likely confuse legal requirements for rabies with
DHLPP.

I've never, ever gone over a year without a vet exam, and I've had
some -ridiculously- healthy dogs.

Rabies only, here.

OK. I'd likely have heard of any common problem in my area, but it
won't hurt to ask the vet. Which I'll do.


And only one formulation, I'll wager. I think my vet still markets
a "1-year" and a (higher priced) "3-Year" vacc. I'm reasonably certain
they are the same thing. Not that it'd much matter, but I wonder if
such practice is 100% legal.

Your protocol sounds quite reasonable to me.

Mine will be 13, which might be very near her life expectancy.

I suspect you will make the rational choice.

Also suspect you are taking very good care of your furry critters.

Much thanks for your response: it was very helpful.

Salut,
Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller

hillary@hillary.net (hillary

In <13a793hjo263bvacaecus92meoo52our9p@4ax.com>,


*>2. You aren't confident in the research on which these claims are based
*>(establishing cause and effect can be surprisingly difficult).
*
*That'd be akin to challenging the efficacy of the AAHA. Very hard
*to swallow, methinks.

Er - what exactly is "the efficacy of the AAHA" please? The efficacy of
them doing what?

The AAHA is an accrediting body, a professional club if you will comprised
of veterinarian and veterinary hospital members who, by joining, gain
access to certain continuing education opportunities, professional
discounts on various seminars and other things, get to receive a
newsletter, and get to claim membership. It's not an academic body by any
stretch.

*And only one formulation, I'll wager. I think my vet still markets
*a "1-year" and a (higher priced) "3-Year" vacc. I'm reasonably certain
*they are the same thing. Not that it'd much matter, but I wonder if
*such practice is 100% legal.

Most of the practice acts I've reviewed state that such things are at the
discretion of the veterinarian - as in, a veterinarian can use a 3-yr
product in a patient and say that he is only issuing a 1-year certificate
based on his professional judgement. Of course the most recent compendium
on rabies prophylaxis that I read says something along the lines of "no
data exists to support the practice of using the 3-year licensed product
annually" or some such, so to me, it's not a defensible practice on a
routine basis, but I know there are those who disagree.

h.
--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

human_and_animal_behavior_forensic_sciences_research_laboratory@hotmail.com

HOWEDY Puddin' Man,

Perhaps you're askin the wrong questions, Pud?

Your questions should be, 'WHO ARE THESE
PATHETIC MISERABLE STINKIN LYIN
ANIMAL MURDERIN PUNK THUG COWARD
ACTIVE ACCUTE CHRONIC LIFE LONG
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES I'm askin for
advice, who's own dogs GOT THE SAME
PROBLEMS for the same reasons and can offer
me NO HEELP and HOWE COME is I askin
them for what they EITHER DON'T KNOW or
REFUSE to tell us to protect their financial
interests and cover up for their immoral unethical
unscrupulHOWES morals and business practices.'

And HOWE COME does my veterinary malpracticioner
risk my pet's life and heelth so he can line his pockets
with my hard earned dough at the E***PENSE of my
pet's welfare?

THEN you'll know HOWE to deal with punks like THIS:

And the ANSWER IS... drumroll please, Mr. Maestro:

dale is a miserable stinkin lyin animal abusing
punk thug coward active accute chronic life long
incurable mental case who aspires to get accepted
into veterinary school and will do and say ANY
THING to defend PROFITABLE veterinary
malpractices.

And Here's a few E***CERPTS from
VACCINATION NEWSFLASH

http://www.doglogic.com/vaccineinfo.htm#news

CONCLUSION Dogs & cats no longer need to be vaccinated against
distemper, parvo, & feline leukemia every year. Once the initial
series of puppy or kitten vaccinations and first annual vaccinations
are completed, immunity from MLV vaccines persists for life. It has
been shown that cats over 1 year of age are immune to Feline Leukemia
whether they have been vaccinated or not.

Imagine the money you will save, not to
mention less risks from side effects.

PCR rabies vaccine, because it is not adjuvanted, will
mean less risk of mediated hemolytic anemia and allergic
reactions are reduced b y less frequent use of vaccines as well as by
avoiding unnecessary vaccines such as K-9 Corona virus and chlamydia
for cats, as well as ineffective vaccines such as Leptospirosis and
FIP.

I would like to make you aware that all 27
veterinary schools in North America are in
the process of changing their protocols for
vaccinating dogs and cats.

Some of this information will present an ethical
& economic challenge to vets, and there will be
skeptics. Some organizations have come up with
a political compromise suggesting vaccinations
every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of
income vs those concerned about potential side
effects.

Politics, traditions, or the doctor's economic well
being should not be a factor in medical decision.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY

"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months.
If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of
age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of
the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If
another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies
from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second
vaccine and there is little or no effect.

The titer is not "boosted" nor are
more memory cells induced.

"Not only are annual boosters for parvo and
distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet
to potential risks of allergic reactions and
immune-mediated hemolytic anemia.

"There is no scientific do***entation to back
up label claims for annual administration of
MLV vaccines

"Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural
protection can last 8-14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be
vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize
the vaccine and little
protection (0-38%) will be produced.

Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing
of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given
2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune
system.

A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and
given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another
vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually
at 1 year 4 mo) will provide lifetime immunity.

CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS

"Distemper & Parvo. According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA,
8-15-95, when a vaccinations series given at 2, 3 &
4 months and again at 1 year with a MLV, puppies and kitten program
memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong immunity.

"Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr. Schultz have studies showing
immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for canine distemper & 4
years for parvovirus. Studies for longer duration are pending.

"There are no new strains of parvovirus as one mfg. would like to
suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all
types.

"Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the agents known
to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines with
CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines carry the
risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage.

"Bordetella Parainfluenza: Commonly called "Kennel cough",
recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows,
or for any reason
housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal
vaccine provides more complete and more rapid onset
of immunity with less chance of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours
and does not protect from every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of
short duration (4 to 6 months).

VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED:

Multiple components in vaccines compete with each
other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity
for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk
of a reaction.

Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies.
It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days
without treatment). Cornell & Texas A& M have only
diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona
virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.

"Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in
dogs. Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US
are caused by serovaars
(or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia.

The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola
and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not
provided and protection is short lived. Lepto
vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than
16 weeks.

----------------------

There's TONS of INFORMATION if you
got the intellect and care enough to learn
HOWE your veterinary malpracticioner is
RIPPIN YOU OFF for your hard earned
dough at the E***PENSE of your pet's life.


O.K. Perhaps dale will LOOK IT UP for us? BWEEEAAAHAAAA!!!


dale is a practiced liar and animal abuser and
veterinary thief in training. He should be disregarded
as a liar and fraud and animal abusin mental case.

dale's blowin smoke up your ignorameHOWES arse, Pud.


Yeah. You'd have to be ILLITERATE or a veterinarian.

NO PROBLEMO:

"All Professions Are A Conspiracy
Against The Layman" - GBShaw.

Perhaps dale is attributin his own values to your vet?


"FEELINS" and OPINIONS GOT NUTHIN
TO DO with SCIENCE, dog lovers <{}: ~ ( >


BWEEEAAAHAAHAAA!!!

SEE? SEE?? SEE???

Yeah? If the immunity CANCELLATION effects
of unnecessary inapupriate innoculations holds
SCIENTIFIC CONSISTENCY, then the legislators
MUST be warned that their Nazi Fascist approach
to the HORRORS of rabies should be addressed
through TITER tests, not INSANE revaccinations.


Well THAT'S on accHOWENTA your dogs have
been CHRONICALLY ILL with EZily preventable
DIS-EASES caused by your ignorameHOWES
veterinary malpractices and faerie tail puppy dogma.


Perhaps you got a -RIDICULOUSLY- short
memory, eh, Pud?:

From: Puddin' Man
Date: Sun, Oct 9 2005 3:32 pm
Email: Puddin' Man <Pudding....@Gmail.Com>

I should have given more details ...

The dog has been getting prednisone
for allergy for years (in season).

There's no evidence this is anxiety-related.
She's been back on pred. for about a week,
and is much better.

There were never any lesions: just bald lumps
on her paws. I gave her antibiotic (Keflex) for 2-3
days anyway.

I think she'll be OK.

Much Thanks,
Puddin'


----------------

THAT'S INSANE, pud.

Any DIS-EASE that's treated with cortisone
IS a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome.

SO'S THIS:

From:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Resear ch_Laborat...@HotMail.Com
Date: 3 Aug 2006 13:57:12 -0700
Local: Thurs, Aug 3 2006 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: Gimpy pooch

HOWEDY puddin' man,
Puddin' Man wrote:


That's interesting. Hip dysplasia is a vitamin C deficit:

http://www.belfield.com/article5.html

In 1976, Dr. Belfield published his observations ("Chronic Subclinical
Scurvy and Canine Hip Dysplasia") in his small animal practice through
the administration of vitamin C to prevent CHD. Whether this concept
has been accepted or not it has sparked controversy, and has some
veterinarians reassessing the archaic heredity theory. There are two
unanswered relevant questions the "experts" have failed to answer to
prove the heredity theory.

1. What is the action of the gene/genes,
how do they create the disease?

2. How does the veterinary practitioner differentiate
between a hip subluxation due to trauma (injury)
from true CHD?

Since the mid 1970's, the author has been successful in preventing CHD
through the administration of nutritional supplements to the pregnant
female and within hours of birth to the newborn.

------------------------

From: AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaborat...@H ushMail.Com
Date: 3 Oct 2005 22:21:44 -0700

Subject: Re: Swelling on paws

HOWEDY Puddin' Man, Puddin' Man wrote:

Licking granulomas are about the most difficult stress
induced auto immune disease to cure because even a
momentary lapse of control of the anxiety will allow
the licking habit to recommence and will reopen the
sores in just minutes.

Usually it takes about three weeks to get every thing
in order. Most likely there will always be scar tissue
and bald spots remaining. I've seen some success with
regrowth of hair using Bag Balm. You can find it at
your local farm and feed stores or on the 'net'.


That's why it's so important to do ALL the
E***ORCISES in my manual to control
the causes of the behavior till the skin
condition heals.

You'll need to use prolonged non physical praise
every time you see or hear the licking begin and
if that doesn't work after ten or fif**** seconds use
the distraction and praise techniques, praise in
advance, AND the Surrogate Toy Separation Anxiety
Technique to extinguish the HABITUAL aspects of
this persistent condition.

The 4 Step Healing Pattern Exercise Should be done
for five minutes daily initially and every other day for
a week or two after the habit is extinguished and then
every other day or every 3rd day for another week or
two to insure your dog doesn't relapse.

Bye the bye, there's a screwball (lyndzi76) tellin
you to go to the vet and give your dog antibiotics
for this stress induced behavior problem. Certainly
infections CAN occur and veterinarians do treat this
condition with antibiotics and steroids, even surgery
INCLUDING AMPUTATION of toes but THAT'S INSANE unless there's a RAGING INFECTION!

You're welcome. Here's my manual. STUDY
IT and FOLLOW IT PRECISELY:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard

From: TheAmazing*****Wiz...@HushMail.Com
Date: 9 Oct 2005 12:40:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Swelling on paws

HOWEDY Puddin' Man,
Puddin' Man wrote:

No, The Amazing Puppy Wizard didn't ASK for more
DETAILS, HE GOT ALL THE INFORMATION HE
NEEDS from your description of your dog's SYMPTOMS.

You dog has licking granulomas, Puddin' Man.

THAT'S A STRESS INDUCED CONDITION.


Of curse, Puddin' Man. The steroids relieve inflamtion
which causes the dog to lick less. The steroids have to
be repeated with each onset of licking. The steroids
compromise the immune system and causes your dog
to eventually break down. They're DANGERHOWES
PHOWERFUL prescription pharmacuticals which
should not be taken gratuitiously.


THAT'S INSANE.

Sure, till the medications KILL HER.


P.S. It's no surprise you've replied to a dog
abuser, Puddin' Man. DECENT PEOPLE
DO NOT POST HERE.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >


That's curiHOWES. Parvo AIN'T DEADLY.

Dogs can recover from Parvo EZ with a little
NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTATION and
will NEVER GET IT if they AIN'T STRESSED.

Yeah. Most vaccines are administered to pups at
6-8 weeks of age while their mom's NATURAL
IMMUNITY is STILL IN FORCE, therebye CANCELLING the immunizations.

Yeah, well, dale's got a LONG way to go
till he even GETS INTO veterinary school.


dale means the LIFE LONG IMMUNITY is compromised
by repeated veterinary profiteering malpractices.

dale is an INCURABLE MENTAL CASE, REMEMBER?


Ahhh, he's pullin the FEAR CARD and he ain't
even been admitted to veterinary malpractice
school. He'll be a E***CELLENT veterinary malpracticioner!

As opposed to FOREVER if you DON'T
revaccinate the dog UNLESS his TITER
tests PROVE the NEED for revaccinations.


You MIGHT wanna ask your VET HOWE
COME he didn't warn you HOWE to
PREVENT ever gettin hip dysplasia and
HOWE to avoid "allergies" CAUSED BY E***CESSIVE vaccinations?


Good for you. While you're at it, you MIGHT
wanna ask him HOWE COME veterinary
malpracticioners NEVER recommend puttin
HONEY on cataracts INSTEAD of offerin
cataract surgery at the cost of SEVERAL
THOWESANDS of dollars of your hard
earned dough <{}: ~ ) >


Yeah. While we're 'BEARING IN MIND
ALL OF THE ABOVE" you MIGHT wanna
ASK your vet HOWE COME they test for
PRA when it too, is EZily PREVENTABLE
with a little vitamin E, eh, PUD?


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA!!

I think we've had ENOUGH E***PERTEASE
from the likes of dale atkins and his ilk, wouldn't you agree, PUD?

Of curse, dale, not having been to veterinary
school as of yet has PROBABLY NEVER
HEARD of TITER tests <{}: ~ ( >


Yeah. IMAGINE HOWE POOR your vet would
get if he TAUGHT you HOWE to pupperly feed
handle and rasie your dog, PUD? You'd of NEVER
HAD TO PAY him for hip surgery, and you'd
NEVER had to PAY HIM for your seasonal
steroid injections and unnecessary allergy and
lameness and licking granuloma treatments.

You've paid your vet enough to put his kids
through VETERINARY SCHOOL. Well,
PUD, if word of this gets HOWET, your
vet's kids will have to go to LAW SCHOOL
to DEFEND their veterinary malpracticioner
DADDY from lawsuites from his CUSTOMERS.


AN E***CELLENT question. Perhaps dale
will consider LAW SCHOOL instead of
veterinary malpractice. LYIN for a lawyer is
an occupational benefit, sometimes a necessity.

Yup! SAME SAME.


Oh, but of curse! Bordetella, aka KENNEL COUGH
aka the COMMON COLD, is not only HARMLESS,
but the vaccine don't even cover but a few strains of
the maybe 17 HARMLESS viruses.


INDEED? Oh, almost forgot, you're a IDIOT.

Well then, in all probablility the ONLY
immunity he's got is FROM his annual
innoculation as his immune system has
been compromised for so many years.


But of curse, dale is too ignorant to TITER his dog.

Well then, let's just put them to sleep so
they don't SUFFER from OLD AGE?

Your dog SHOULD be able to live
comfortably 15 to 18 years, but for
commercial garbage dog foods and
unnecessary inapupriate surgical
***ual mutilations and E***CESSIVE
and unnecessary ineffective vaccinations.

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!

HOWE can we deal with someWON
so pathetically ignorameHOWES?

I'll TELL YOU HOWE. I STRANGLE them
by QUOTING their own posted case histories.


Oh, INDEEDY! dale will fly by the seat of
his pants gut FEELINS and will probably
MURDER his dog with the blue stuff when
his unnecessary inapupriate E***CESSIVE
innoculations shorten his dog's life by FIVE
YEARS or the NSAID pain relievers cripple
his kidneys and liver.


Yeah, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO.

BWEEEAAAHAHAAAA!!

INDEEDY!:
_ _
|_| |_|
| | /^^^\ | |
_| |_ (| "o" |) _| |_
_| | | | _ (_---_) _ | | | |_
| | | | |' | _| |_ |`| | | | |
| | / \ | |
\ / / /(. .)\ \ \ /
\ / / / | . | \ \ \ /
\ \/ / ||y|| \ \/ /
\__/ || || \__/
() ()
|| ||
ooO Ooo

"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain."

INDEEDY.

THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!:

In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, *****, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >