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1 12th December 15:09
the puppy wizard
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default jacks and cats


HOWEDY Mary,


The Puppy Wizard offers a FREE comprehensive training
manual and all the additional FREE heelp you may need,
just for the askin.


The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students achieve 100% TOTAL NON
PHYSICAL CONTROL NEARLY INSTANTLY.

HOWER DOG LOVERS CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES
by The Puppy Wizard. They'd rather see your kat get DEAD or
your dog lose a eye than to see you SUCCEED using your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

You'll have this behavior in control in WON DAY if you
study your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and
ask for addtional FREE heelp if you need any.

Here's WON of HOWER most respected liars
and dog abusers:

From: The Puppy Wizard (jhowe2@bellsouth.net)
Subject: Re: New pup and the cat
Date: 2002-09-17 14:26:12 PST
<TOTE@dog-play.com> wrote in message news:nPIh9.18078$T_.409237@iad-read.news.verio.net...

<+Acousticbrute1@zonementors.com> whittled these words:


That's on account of you got no ability to train dogs.
You only understand hurting and intimidating them,
Master Of Deception blankman.

Is that so?


Let's take a look at the crap you got there...

I tell you that.


Yup. That's up to the TRAINER.


That's on account of HOWE you mishandle them.


Because they've watched you intimidate and hurt the
dogs over their interactions with the kats? HEY???
That's another LIE, blankman. YOU SAID you day
board your dogs at the sick animal hospital so your
kats can HAVE SOME PEACE and ROAM YOUR
HOWES when you're not there, blankman.

You care to retract either of your STATEMENTS???


Is that so, Master Of Deception blankman? You insult
everybody's intelligence and dignity. You're a lying dog
abusing Thug, Master Of Deception blankman.

Is that so?


RIGHT! So you're gonna start them off separated???
Sounds like another CONTRADICTION, Master Of
Deception blankman. Care to RETRACT one of your
STATEMENTS, Master Of Deception blankman?

HEY!!! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS NO MOORE,
Master Of Deception blankman. That makes you sound
like a goddamned liar, doesn't it.

anyway.

The kat is MOORE likely to claw the dog's eyes out.


For WHAAAT? To jerk and choke IT?


YOU'RE AN IDIOT! That's HOWE COME janet boss's kat
attacks her, when she punishes her dogs.

Like you got a fish bone stuck in your craw?

So the puppy will learn not to molest the kat while
you're sittin on your fat ass chokin on a fish bone?

You're giving us MISADVISE that'll surely cause problems
LIKE YOU GOT, Master Of Deception blankman.


Thanks for the warning!


That's not going to teach the puppy SELF CONTROL.


That will distract the puppy too far from the LEARNING
he's supposed to be doin...


away.

BWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Diane Blackman
- - - - - - - - -

Let's try the next piece of crap:

Halah24 wrote:

I got a lab puppy about 2 1/2 months ago. I already had a 3 year
old cat.
Well, contrary to what I have read in here, the cat and the dog DO
NOT get
along. The dog (Lucy), looks at the cat, (Kitty), as a play toy, I
think.
She will run up to the cat and jump on her. Of course, Kitty hates
this, and
runs away. They often have stare-downs where Lucy incessantly
barks and
Kitty growls at her until Lucy tries to touch her and then she
gets clawed.
So far, my policy has been to tell Lucy no and to keep the two
pretty much
completely separated when possible. Any other suggestions? BTW,
this may be
extreme, but I'm kind of afraid Lucy might kill the cat if they're
left
alone together. Is this likely?
Julie
------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- ----


Is that so? You're saying a dog cannot be trained?


Well, that might have something to do with your pronged
spiked pinch choke collars and intimidation, Master Of Deception blankman.

present.

Is that so? Is that done like your snakeproofing and poison proofing?

That's HOWE COME you use that shepherd's crook, isn't
that so, Master Of Deception blankman?

No. That IS the point, Master Of Deception blankman.
ANY stress associated with the kat will make him aggressive,
pershaps not in front of you, but certainly when they meet
outside. HOWEver, the kat won't be prepared to run from
the dog he WAS safe with inside, where you intimidated
and hurt him for lookin at the kat.

For what? So the dog will become MOORE anxious
about the kat instead of just DISTRACTING AND PRAISING
as I teach my students to control ALL undesirable behavior?


Seems everybody's health and lives are dependent on it,
Master Of Deception blankman.

Timing? You mean for punishing the dog, Master Of Deception
blankman?

Ahhh! From someone EXPERIENCED in this field, perhaps
your pal booby maida who HELPED your pal carol levie to
train her dog not to pull her down and break her ribs bolting
after another animal or TURNING ON HER in the presence
of other animals, Master Of Deception blankman?


Yeah! It made carol's dog TURN ON HER and a couple
months later pulled her down and broke her ribs!!!


Yeah. You can't continue giving us this kind of lousy advice,
Master Of Deception blankman.

You're a liar and a dog abuser. Now get the heel outta here.

Your Get The Heel Outta Here Wizard. <}YGTHOHW : ~ [ >
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2 12th December 15:09
the puppy wizard
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default jacks and cats


HOWEDY mary,


A dog is a dog.


A kat is a kat.


That's on accHOWENT of you're trying to force them.

Well, you haven't been readin HOWER forum.
You're asking liars dog abusers and MENTAL
CASES for heelp for the same same problems
they got that they can't rehabilitate.

Here's The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Student replying
to Master Of Deception blankman, WON of HOWER
most despicable dog abusers and notoriHOWES liars:

From: Lynn (roudyregal@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: New pup and the cat
Date: 2002-09-17 20:53:28 PST


I could not believe this when I read it. You can't keep things
straight is right. If dogs do not act like their wild counter
parts,
how can a prey drive come into this, let alone exist? If I were
not
laughing so hard I would be insulted. Lynn
"The Puppy Wizard" <jhowe2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<tUMh9.64744$AY5.28984702@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>...

<+Acousticbrute1@zonementors.com> whittled these words:
  Reply With Quote
3 12th December 15:09
the puppy wizard
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default jacks and cats


HOWEDY Mary,


You're askin liars, dog abusers and MENTAL CASES.


That's EZ. Should take WON DAY to get them to be pals.

You won't be gettin no advice from HOWER dog abusers
and lying mental cases.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget
to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than
a
choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but should
be
used under the direction of a trainer who knows how to instruct
the
owner in their proper use. Electronics can take the form of
shock,
sonic or citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with
electronics instead of food or whatever other reward system was being used."
"Jerry Howe" <jhowe2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<SlDg7.10491$V7.313612@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>...


What are you talking about, you lying sack of dung?
You keep talking about some photo on "my" website related to dogs
and cats. I don't have a clue where you dreamt that up. There IS
an article about introducing dogs to cats at http://www.sfgsrescue.org -
hardly my website - but there are no photos with humans at that
site.
And the article is clearly attributed to the author, who isn't me.
When have I ever said anything about using a prong collar, or any
collar correction at all, to make dogs friendly to house cats?
Don't bother. The answer is never.

And I did say "I love Koehler", in reference to the passage he
wrote
about the damage foggy-headed trainers like you do. Specifically.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20 ginger57@my-deja.com wrote:


Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

We rely on a dog's normal pack instinct and instinct to possess.
The
goal is to strengthen those responses to the cat, to the point
where
they outweigh prey drive behavior. It nearly always works, and
you
won't lose a cat or hurt one of your dogs in the process. The
dogs
aren't coerced into accepting the cats, but given the opportunity
to
recognize individuals as part of their environment, rather than
prey, by
taking advantage of natural pack and possessive behaviors.

When someone asks me if one of our dogs likes cats, my first
thought is, "yes, for breakfast, lunch and dinner and a midnight
snack".
Even dogs who have lived in a home with cats are
unpredictable in a new home setting for several reasons: cats all
react differently to dogs, a dog may have felt a sense of
possession
of a specific cat (or any other pet) in its previous home, or the
dog
may be taking its cue from an alpha (who "possesses" the cat).

A dog's ability to live with a specific cat does not mean that it
is
"good" with all cats. It may mean that the dog has no prey drive,
but
it could also mean that the dog "possessed" a specific cat, or
lived
where an alpha possessed a specific cat(s). A dog can live with
cat(s) while still maintaining prey drive around all other cats;
this is
because the dog considers the cat a possession or a packmate, not
prey.

It doesn't lump all cats into one basket and treat them all alike.
Pack hassling over position can even spill over into fights over
(or
attacks upon) the "possession" (i.e. take-away).

There's some basic principles in order for a dog and cat (or bunny
or
bird or whatever) to be able to live together:

1) There are variances by breed that must be considered. A German
Shepherd Dog's instinct to possess overrides its prey drive. But
this
is not true for some other breeds such as terriers, sighthounds
and
Ridgebacks. There are limits to what can be achieved, but it
should
work with your Bichon-mix.

2) A dog will accept a cat (or other animal) either as a
possession or
a pack mate if opportunity for interaction is given where the dog
cannot see the cat as prey.

3) The dog must accept its owner as "alpha" and take its cue on
how
to treat the cat(s) from the owner. The owner, however, should
not
be perceived as "possessing" the cat.

The plan that follows will not to stop the dog from chasing all
cats.
It works to establish a sense of "pack" and possession of the cat
in
the dog's mind The steps below allow the dog and cat to interact
in
a controlled manner in order to establish a sense of possession in
the
dog while keeping the cat safe while this process is underway.
You
don't want to endanger your boyfriend's cats in any way in this
process.

Steps:

All these steps are important. It's easier it's to introduce a
dog to a
cat who has never been chased by a dog because the cat will
interact
with the dog sooner, but this works for existing situations
once the cat realizes it's safe. Some cats are easier to work
with than
others. It is a fine line to tread because you do not want the
dog to
believe that its owner is possessing the cat - the dog must feel
that
he or she possesses the cat. Otherwise, the dog can see the cat
as
something to try to steal away from its owner, especially if there
is
any question of the owner being the pack "alpha".

During the learning process, the dog must never be allowed to
chase
the cat(s) or to play games that put it in prey drive while the
cat is
present. If this isn't done, the process will not work. Work
with one
dog at a time if possible.

1) The owner of the dog must become the alpha dog in the
household. The dog has to realize that it is not alpha and must
take
its cues from the human pack members as to who it accepts. The
owner needs to have established a level of control.

2) When the dog is introduced to the household, the cats are shut
away in another room. This is also true if you are introducing a
cat
into a household with dogs. There are no exceptions at all.
Especially don't carry a cat in your arms if a dog is loose. This
can
be dangerous for cat, dog and human. A child should never ever
carry a cat or small animal in its arms around a loose dog.

3) When the cats are allowed out freely to roam without human
supervision, the dog must be outside or where it cannot see the
cat.
It cannot be inside in a crate where it can see and/or bark or
lunge at
the cat without correction. This is vital and the entire process
will
not work if this isn't done properly.

4) Shut the dog in its crate and allow the cat(s) out hopefully
to walk
past the dog crate. If the dog barks or lunges within the crate,
the
dog is verbally corrected. Make sure that the cats are in
another
room behind a closed door before letting the dog have its time out
of
the crate. I'm not talking about keeping the dog in the crate all
the
time, it's more keeping the cats in another room most of the time.

The dog is crated while the cats are out, and then let out of the
crate
for most of the time. This may take several days or weeks to
accomplish. It depends on how quickly the cat comes around to the
dog's crate area (which should be with the family).

5) Do not comfort, pet or fuss over the cats where the dog can
see it
from his crate. Especially don't do this after the dog has barked
or
lunged at the cat. Correct only the dog. This is because you do
not
want the dog to see the cat as your possession.

6) Accustom the dog to a muzzle while it is hanging out in its
crate.
It will be muzzled when it goes to the vet or is groomed (even if
we
don't see it, it happens), so this way the dog is used to a
muzzle.
Leave it on for 10 - 15 minutes at a time if it isn't hot. If
it's
hot, the dog must not be muzzled because it can't pant. The
muzzle
is only a temporary tool. But the muzzle must be used for the
cat's
sake.

7) After 10-14 days where the dog does not bark or lunge at the
cat
and the cat is comfortable walking around the crate, it's show
time!

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget
to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than
a
choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation.
Have
the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack out of
the
leash and let the cat walk through the room and up to the dog if
it
wishes (this is why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes
an
aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly
with both
your voice and the collar. This is important - the correction
must
be physically very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to
be corrected at all).

Do not correct the dog for sniffing at the cat. Sniffing is very
good
and is to be encouraged. Attention barking is also okay. The
dog
will feel any nervousness or tension of the owner via the leash
and
feed off of it, so it's important to be calm. That's also why the
muzzle
is on the dog - the owner knows the cat is safe no matter what.
Do
this for about 5-10 minutes at first, then put the dog or cat
away. Try
to be observant to end the session while both dog and cat are
doing
well. You can spin out the time until it's an hour or so.

9) Each time the dog first sees the cat, it gets a food treat.
Cat =
a
cookie. If the dog is showing too much interest in the cat (like
scenting for it), distract the dog by giving it something else to
do,
like a sit or heel with praise for doing what you've told it to do
rather than automatically giving it a cookie.

You can't reward the dog for not chasing the cat but you can
reward it
for doing something you've asked of it.

10) There is no playing ball, running or chasing about the house,
either by dogs, cats or humans while the dog and cat are out
together. This is because care needs to be taken to see that the
dog
doesn't go into prey drive. This needs to continue throughout
this
entire process.

11) Supervise the interaction and after 7-10 days where the dog
has
not had to be corrected, the prong and leash control can be
eliminated. Even if you never had to correct the dog, it's
important to
wait 7-10 days. Leave on the muzzle. The dog and cat can not be
left unsupervised. If the dog chases the cat during this period,
it's
back to item #7.

12) After about four-six weeks where the owner has not observed
any
prey drive in the dog towards its cat, it is time to do without
the
muzzle. Interaction should still be supervised and the two
animals
never left alone unless there is a place for the cat to go to
safety.
If you've got a dog who is possessive about food, obviously you
don't
let the cat near when the dog is eating. Since cat food is very
unhealthy for dogs, the cat's food should not be where the dog can
reach
it.

Some caveats:

If there's multiple dogs in the household, there can be discord
over
possession. The cat can be seen as an object to be taken away.
This is
also true if the dog perceives the cat to be the possession of
the owner.

There are some harder cases, and then it's a matter of the
commitment level of the owner to making the dog accept the cat.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but should
be
used under the direction of a trainer who knows how to instruct
the
owner in their proper use. Electronics can take the form of
shock,
sonic or citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with
electronics instead of food or whatever other reward system was
being used. This type of training will also tend to result in a
dog
that
does not chase cats at all because it is not building on the pack
and
possession instinct aspects of behavior.

A dog who chases cats endangers both the cat and itself. A cat
scratch in a dog's eye can cause infection, cataracts, glaucoma,
loss
of sight or even loss of an eye. This was the case with a dog
who
would chase any cat other than her own. Left unsupervised, she
chased
and cornered a kennel cat. The cat was just fine (thank
goodness) but the dog nearly lost an eye from a deep cat scratch.

This dog has since been trained using electronics to do a sit when
she sees any cat. She associates cats with an electronic
correction
and has learned to avoid the correction by performing her sit. It
took
about two or so weeks to train and proof her. She doesn't do the
sit
automatically when she sees her own cats, which is what leads me
to
think that she does not lump all cats into one mental basket, and
is
consistent with the pack/possession drive theory. She also does
the
sit thing when she sees squirrels on walks ... kind of
interesting. My
theory is that she has generalized the aversion to strong prey
drive,
rather than cats as the specific object of that prey drive.

Lynn K.

Oh, hey? Lookey here whot I found:

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or beat a dog,
or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog by
making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl who continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require much more frequent and heavy application of
pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the
job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield the stick, or do
it
yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to
progress
to striking them more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar,
even
the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give
in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping
theear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting
your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand, As it
catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is
digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without
any
ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it,
chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because the ear is
getting
tender, or the dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying frosty
dahl.

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine.


You're scary Marilyn.

Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual. I feel very sorry
for her and her family.

BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote
(an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe's heavily edited
diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting
or using an abusive form of training.

--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
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4 12th December 15:09
the puppy wizard
External User
 
Posts: 1
Default jacks and cats


HOWEDY Mary,


You're askin LIARS, DOG ABUSERS, and MENTAL CASES:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.


Date: 2003-07-03 11:17:14 PST
sighthounds etc. <greypighound@ncweb.com> wrote:

One of the best things I learned on this group had to do with
getting
dogs to get along with cats, even though I don't have any cats. I
think
it was Cindy who wrote a thing on keeping the dog from chasing or
mauling the cat while setting things up with treats and praise for
the
dog to think the best things in his whole life all happened
whenever a
cat appeared as long as he didn't harrass the cat, at which point,
the
favorite treats and lavish praise would be over.

I used this technique for foster dogs, including those that became
keepers, who were dog snarky, and it worked really really well. I
can
see using a correction of some kind to keep the dog from getting
at the
other dog, but the thing that changed the attitude was the
association
of other dogs with good things. The opposite would be
accomplished with
associating other dogs with pain. I have to say, though, that I
never
did this with a badly dog aggressive dog. I knew when I was out
of my
league. I would rely on Lynn to know what to do to keep any dog
from
going after another dog, but I would also trust her to follow up
with
further training that treats the underlying problem. I don't see
any of
that in the parking lot guy's particular method, so I can't see
where it
works like a charm unless you want magical disaster.

--
Paula
"Cry 'Lamer!' and let slip the flames of war."
-- Bryce Utting

=========================

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget
to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than
a
choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but should
be
used under the direction of a trainer who knows how to instruct
the
owner in their proper use. Electronics can take the form of
shock,
sonic or citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with
electronics instead of food or whatever other reward system was being used."
"Jerry Howe" <jhowe2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<SlDg7.10491$V7.313612@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>...


What are you talking about, you lying sack of dung?
You keep talking about some photo on "my" website related to dogs
and cats. I don't have a clue where you dreamt that up. There IS
an article about introducing dogs to cats at http://www.sfgsrescue.org -
hardly my website - but there are no photos with humans at that
site.
And the article is clearly attributed to the author, who isn't me.
When have I ever said anything about using a prong collar, or any
collar correction at all, to make dogs friendly to house cats?
Don't bother. The answer is never.

And I did say "I love Koehler", in reference to the passage he
wrote
about the damage foggy-headed trainers like you do. Specifically.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20 ginger57@my-deja.com wrote:


Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

We rely on a dog's normal pack instinct and instinct to possess.
The
goal is to strengthen those responses to the cat, to the point
where
they outweigh prey drive behavior. It nearly always works, and
you
won't lose a cat or hurt one of your dogs in the process. The
dogs
aren't coerced into accepting the cats, but given the opportunity
to
recognize individuals as part of their environment, rather than
prey, by
taking advantage of natural pack and possessive behaviors.

When someone asks me if one of our dogs likes cats, my first
thought is, "yes, for breakfast, lunch and dinner and a midnight
snack".
Even dogs who have lived in a home with cats are
unpredictable in a new home setting for several reasons: cats all
react differently to dogs, a dog may have felt a sense of
possession
of a specific cat (or any other pet) in its previous home, or the
dog
may be taking its cue from an alpha (who "possesses" the cat).

A dog's ability to live with a specific cat does not mean that it
is
"good" with all cats. It may mean that the dog has no prey drive,
but
it could also mean that the dog "possessed" a specific cat, or
lived
where an alpha possessed a specific cat(s). A dog can live with
cat(s) while still maintaining prey drive around all other cats;
this is
because the dog considers the cat a possession or a packmate, not
prey.

It doesn't lump all cats into one basket and treat them all alike.
Pack hassling over position can even spill over into fights over
(or
attacks upon) the "possession" (i.e. take-away).
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